Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,306
Mobile phone roaming charges cut within EU
For balance.
Of course, Vote Leave ups their special deal to compensate. How big is their unfunded promises budget now, I wonder?![Eek! :eek: :eek:](/styles/default/xenforo/vbSmilies/Normal/eek.gif)
For balance.
![Smile :) :)](/styles/default/xenforo/vbSmilies/Normal/smile.gif)
![Eek! :eek: :eek:](/styles/default/xenforo/vbSmilies/Normal/eek.gif)
Mobile phone roaming charges cut within EU
For balance.Of course, Vote Leave ups their special deal to compensate. How big is their unfunded promises budget now, I wonder?
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BBC said:So if the UK voted to leave the EU, it could decide whether it wanted to keep them or not.
There's an important difference, we can choose to be bound by international treaties and agreements and make them part of UK law, but EU law by definition will always override UK law. That's the whole basis of the Supremacy of EU Law and why so people (me included) have a problem with that concept. Our signing up to international treaties doesn't mean we're giving the power to create supreme law to a foreign body, but that's exactly what we've done by being in the EU.
Dominic Raab, a justice minister, said the decisions of the ECJ “affect everything from the price of beer to the cost of home insulation” and “undermine the basic principle of our democracy — that the British people can hold to account those who write the laws of our land”.
EU law is not UK law, they are different legal frameworks.
Norway have retained most importantly their sovereignty, but also don't have to listen to the European Court of Justice (whereas the UK is currently forced to), they can adjust VAT (we currently can't), they're outside of CAP/CFP (we have to adhere to it), they can negotiate trade deals globally (we can't), and the list goes on.
No need to compensate![]()
Lol Brexiteers gonna Brexiteer
The ability of the EU to create law is entirely bound by international agreements we signed up to.
But this is false. The EU is democratically accountable to the British people through our national parliament and it's appointed representatives and through directly elected MEPs.
No, EU law is not UK law, that doesn't stop it being our law. We're part of the EU; it's not some remote law making body of which we're not part.
And they're bound by rules they have no part in making. How does being bound by rules you don't make increase your sovereignty? The concept makes no sense.
The UK giving its "consent to be bound" to international treaties is not the same as how EU law compromises the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty.
Come on, do you really believe that? How is the EU democratically accountable to the British people? Do we vote for anyone in the executive? No. Do we directly elect the 1 British representative in the Counsel of Ministers? No.
Do our people get to be jury in the European Courts? No.
We get one vote, every 5 years, to elect MEP's who make up less than 10% of the total number (soon to be less than that when Turkey, Albania, Macedonia etc join).
Even some of the most vehement remain supporters I've spoken to accept the EU has a problem with democracy, you only have to look at how they react when referenda don't go their way or better still, look at some of the quotes coming out of EU officials. The whole concept of the "democratic deficit" is well established, whichever side of the debate you're on. I think remainers still clinging onto the hope that some people will believe the EU is/can be democratic really doesn't do their argument any favours.
You keep making this same point without showing any willingness to actually debate the detail. I've explained above (and this links demonstrates it well) Norway has far more control/power over various areas, and most importantly they retain the supremacy of their own law. Being subordinate to the European Court of Justice is another tangible example, we are subordinate, Norway is not.
I and other Brexit supporters don't believe we have any real influence over EU law anyway, so basing your argument on that just won't convince people unless they can see we do have influence, and I'm still to see any good evidence of that.
I find the idea that the UK has no influence silly, so I feel little need to address it.
The EU is much bigger than the UK. I don't expect us to have an unreasonable level of say in its running anymore than I expect Leicester South to dictate policy to the UK.
I find the idea that the UK has no influence silly, so I feel little need to address it.
No, it's exactly the same thing. We made a treaty with the EU, and it's power enters our legal system on exactly the same basis as other international law. That this is true is obvious from the simple fact we're having a referendum on staying in the EU. Our parliament reserves the right to reverse prior treaty. Doing so does, of course, have consequence.
No, it's chosen by our democratically elected government. Just as our representatives in other international negotiations are chosen by our government. The number of people who are directly elected in the UK is tiny compared to the number of people who serve in our government. Democracy is achieved not directly but by accountability to the elected positions.
The EU is much bigger than the UK. I don't expect us to have an unreasonable level of say in its running anymore than I expect Leicester South to dictate policy to the UK.
I keep making the point because you never address it. How does being bound by rules we no longer have any say over increase our sovereignty? Or are you arguing that it does reduce our sovereignty but that we make more back elsewhere?
I find the idea that the UK has no influence silly, so I feel little need to address it.
We saved you lot from the oil price collapse, so now it's your chance to do something in return.
We can cope well enough without the black stuff. Best to let us go before we scupper your brexit plans.
The very poll in the thread and the months before are all towards leave and I consider this forum quite pro Europe.
Recent polling from YouGov puts Scotland at 63-37 Remain-Leave.
Conservative supporters are less likely to say “don’t know” to questions on public policy. But today, there are two million of them who are torn between the two sides. In a close race they could well be decisive. Will they end up loyal to their party leader and cast a risk-averse vote for continued membership of the EU – or will dislike of Brussels and the appeal of Boris Johnson and other leading Tories propel them to a vote for Brexit?
On the other side of the party fence, the turnout of Labour voters matters hugely. They currently comprise 47 per cent of all pro-EU voters. If Jeremy Corbyn’s reluctance to campaign enthusiastically for the party’s long-established policy causes a significant number of Labour supporters to stay at home, this could be fatal for the pro-EU cause.
Interesting. I'm hearing a lot of buzz about a speedy admission of a newly independent Scotland to the EU, assuming Broken Brexit. Where'd the rumour come from? Anything in the Holyrood elections?
I find the idea that the UK has no influence silly, so I feel little need to address it.
Well that's simply not true. All of the polls have remain in the lead. The poll of polls has a 6% lead for remain. And if you're into your bookies odds then. 3/10 to Remain against 9/4 to leave says it all.
This country will stay in the EU. Everything else is just noise![]()