Please help me with Sound Upgrade (Stereo Speakers, Amp and sound card)

peteruk

peteruk

peteruk

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Nr. Norwich, Norfolk
Hi all,

I posted on here not long ago when I was looking for some new sound equipment to upgrade my PC’s current setup. I passed on that occasion, but have decided to look into it again with a good intent to buy. Basically, my knowledge of PC sound and such is lacking. I have what is apparently a very dated setup that is as follows:
5.1 Sound Blaster Live! Value Sound card
4.1 Logitech Z-540 speakers (will get some details)
So I’d like to improve this. My sound output is largely music but occasionally consists of movies and even the odd game. Basically, from what I gathered last visit (which was very informative btw) it was best if I went down the stereo speaker and amp route, as their sound quality far outstretched that of PC speakers. I decided I could keep my current speakers for surround sound ability for the few occasions when I need that. You never know, the new sound quality may out-weigh the need for it.

My budget is quite flexible; I’m thinking £100-£200, which I know isn’t a lot for this kind of thing but I’m hoping to make used purchases to save on cost. I'm prepared to go more if need be, especially as I have little idea of the soundcard element.

This is a very rough list of what I have been recommended for the Amp along with a few vague costs estimations:
1. Arcam 7 (approx £90?)
2. Marantz PM6010 (approx £100?)
3. Cambridge Audio A5 (approx £80?)
4. Cambridge Audio A1 v3(approx £50?)

And for the speakers:
1. Mission M71(i)
2. Mission 771
3. B&W 601

I have little idea for sound cards, so if someone could make a suggestion it would be much appreciated. It may turn out I don’t even need to upgrade this anyway.

Now I realise the importance of matching equipment that works well together, so my request to you OcUK pros is please recommend what you think I should do with these or other items to get what I ultimately want. :)

I know it's a lot to ask, but I'm really grateful for any help.

Some may also wish to know I have a rather small room. I’m not saying that because I’d worry about fitting everything in, but more because some things are meant to be best suited to certain size places. I think this is usually in the case of rooms being too big for the speakers rather than the other way round though so shouldn’t matter much for me. The room is also ground-floor, and the speakers will likely be floor standing, so this could be important for bass considerations.

As for second hand outlets, there is ‘the-auction-site-that-must-not-be-named’ as well as HiFiforsale. Any other suggestions welcome. :D

Thanks to anyone who can help,
Peter :)

P.S. I’m not sure whether this belongs in the HiFi section or Sound City, so please advise if it’s in the wrong place and I’ll happily repost.
 
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I would think the B&W would be superior to the Mission speakers. B&W 600 series get very good write-ups. Have you thought about stands btw? These full size bookshelf speakers are designed to be on mass filled stands, and you should also know that they're designed to be like 2 metres apart and you're supposed to listen from 2 metres away. Of course that's not always entirely possible. Are you planning to put them on your PC desk? Might not get much bass that way.

Some other stuff that falls into the same bracket as those you listed - Marantz PM66-SE (very similar to 6010 but previous generation) and Eltax Monitor 3 speakers. That's what I have, and my speakers are on Atacama SE24 stands. I paid £80, £60 and £30 for amp/speakers/stands respectively from the bay. I don't use them with my PC though, they're connected to cd player/xbox/dvd player.
 
Something else to look at - someone recommended to me Mordaunt Short MS10i speakers for use with a PC because they're 'nearfield', which I presume means you don't have to be as far away and they can be closer together. The same person recommended a Sonic T digital amp to go with them. They're dirt cheap (I just checked the bay) and fit in the palm of your hand apparently :D

And while I'm on the subject - check out Roland DM10 desktop monitors on the bay. They're an all-in-one solution with built in amp, plus they're digital.
 
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The mission M3 series speakers replaced the M7 series, and are still very cheap but i think sound a tad better.

out the lot id go for the B&W's just for the fact that if you ever upgraded to a 5.1 system, you could mix and match other B&W center and surround speakers without having to worry about gettin somethin that matches the sound of your original speakers (i.e getting the right center for that particular series of speaker) like you have to with most other speakers
 
You say that the speakers will be floorstanding, but you're looking at bookshelf speakers. Look into some decent stands. Also consider the fact that for PC use you're going to be sitting higher than you would normally be if you were sitting on a sofa, so the speakers might be too low if you buy standard stands (about 70cm).

It's always really hard to recommend second hand buys if you've not heard anything really before. Anything by the big manufacturers like KEF, Mission, B&W or Tannoy should do you fine for speakers. Cambridge Audio amps such as the A1 and A5 are good for the money, also look into Denon and Audiolab (Matblack has an 8000 and raves about it!).

I would also look in RIchersounds and see if you can listen to some things or at least have a look around. For your budget you'd get something decent new, but obviously a second hand purchase would either give you the goods cheaper, or get you more for your money.
 
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fish99 said:
they're designed to be like 2 metres apart and you're supposed to listen from 2 metres away.
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Well I think I can just manage 2 metres apart, but not 2 metres awat from each one, will this be a big problem?

fish99 said:
Are you planning to put them on your PC desk?
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It is unlikely, either directly on floor, or on a stand then on the floor, as people seem to suggest is better.

fish99 said:
The same person recommended a Sonic T digital amp to go with them.
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They are indeed very cheap, looks almost like there must be some be absent features compared to other apps. Hmm.

fish99 said:
'nearfield'
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This sounds interesting, might have to focus on speakers in this catagory then.

fish99 said:
check out Roland DM10 desktop monitors
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Hmm seems indeed cheap and convenient but would so limit upgrading possibilities I would think. Would also need to check for reviews first before considerring any speakers (except for those B&W though, which people seem to hold as sacred :D).

tom_nieto said:
Also consider the fact that for PC use you're going to be sitting higher than you would normally be if you were sitting on a sofa
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I actually sit on my bed to use my PC :p (very small room you see), I'll measure the distance from the floor if need be.

tom_nieto said:
but obviously a second hand purchase would either give you the goods cheaper, or get you more for your money.
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I don't mean to worry, but is there any risk of components like speakers or amps wearing up after considerable use? I know they're well designed, but maybe if they're precision instruments they could wane over time?


Thanks for everyone's help so far! :)
 
I've got my bookshelf speakers 150 cm apart (the manual recommends 2 m) and they sound fine like that. Before that I had them about 100 cm apart and the stereo imaging was much worse. They still delivered a high quality sound, but the seperation between the channels was a bit messed up and it could make certain bits of music sound a bit muddled.

Whatever you do don't buy bookshelf speakers and then sit them straight on the floor. Either get stands to put them on, or go for floorstanders (probably not a good idea in a small room). You don't have to spend a lot on stands though, but look out for some that can be mass filled and have bottom spikes. The mass filling really brings out the bass and the spikes isolates them from the floor and helps prevent the sound reaching other rooms, plus it makes them steadier.

Not actually recommending either that Sonic T amp or those Rolands speakers since I've never used them. Just thought they were interesting options and they're also what I'm considering myself at the moment.
 
I've just ordered one of those Sonic Impact 5066 T-Amps myself (£30), and I've decided on some JBL Control 1 mini speakers to go with it. Also found a 12V 2A universal adaptor for the amp, which took ages to find. The amp gets amazing reviews everywhere for its sound quality, although it's not very powerful of course. I think with 4 ohm speakers it's 15W which should be plenty for a typical PC situation.

Fed up of my crappy Logitech PC speakers (my Eltax/Marantz gear isn't connected to my PC btw). I'll post back on how I get on if I remember.
 
Got it today and it's a stunning little thing. Seems to match the sound quality of my £280 Marantz PM66-SE amp straight out of the box, and it hasn't even burnt in yet. Pretty powerful too - I'm using it with my 8 ohm Eltax Monitor 3's, and when wired to my Marantz CD5000 and with the amp volume on less than a quarter it's producing a significant amount of volume. When I get the 4 ohm speakers I'm intending to use it with, it should be twice as loud. Definitely powerful enough for use with a PC or a bedroom hi-fi.

Also tried it with my PC and it sounds excellent too, better than excellent even.

One limitation some people wouldn't like is the 3.5mm input rather than twin phono, so it's more suited to connecting to a PC/MP3 player than a CD player, depending on what leads you have of course. It's also plasticy and gives the impression it wouldn't take too much abuse to break it, but if it's just gonna sit on your desk and you don't bang it around or drop I'm sure it'll be fine. Obviously reliability remains to be seen.
 
peteruk said:
Great. :)

I'll put that Sonic T at the top of the Amps list and the B&W at the top of the speakers.

Anyone any ideas on soundcards though?
Is it worth me changing it?
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Definitly if you're using a Soundblaster Live!

If you're a gamer, one of the Creative X-FI range would do well.
You might also look at the M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (better than the 7.1 by a small way) and maybe the Audiophile 192 or 2496 (although the Audiophiles are more 'recording' cards), if you're not so bothered by support for swanky effects in games.
 
Can I throw a spanner in the works?

I'm pretty experienced with the whole Class T stuff.

I liked the Sonic T - got one about a year ago at the start of the craze. Eventually I started to find it fatigueing and it was noticeable that it was tripping up over more complicated stuff.

This is what I'm using now and it's miles ahead for not much more cash: http://www.diyparadise.com/charlize.html

Consider it ;)
 
Fair enough, but mine is still a huge improvement over my logitech PC speakers, and it seems to be able to drive 8 ohm bookshelf speakers with no problem. I think it's gonna work out an excellent solution for gaming on my PC when I team it up with some mini hi-fi speakers (JBL control 1 is my current plan).

For serious music listenning I have my hi-fi.
 
I'd love to make a 5 channel power amp mounted in a tiny enclosure out of a whole bunch of those! Hell, why not have a 10 channel one and bi-amp. The thing is though, I'd still be tempted to go for a more conventional type of amp to save on soldering and hassle.
 
Ok I've just been looking on the B&W site and noticed there are S1, S2 and S3 versions of the DM601s.

Could anyone point out the difference between them?
And are the 602s much advancement from that?

Thanks :)

Now going to get a Sonic T. :cool:

Edit: Also, apart from the bay, where else would you recomend getting second hand speakers?
 
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fish99 said:
Got it today and it's a stunning little thing. Seems to match the sound quality of my £280 Marantz PM66-SE amp straight out of the box, and it hasn't even burnt in yet. Pretty powerful too - I'm using it with my 8 ohm Eltax Monitor 3's, and when wired to my Marantz CD5000 and with the amp volume on less than a quarter it's producing a significant amount of volume. When I get the 4 ohm speakers I'm intending to use it with, it should be twice as loud. Definitely powerful enough for use with a PC or a bedroom hi-fi.

Also tried it with my PC and it sounds excellent too, better than excellent even.

One limitation some people wouldn't like is the 3.5mm input rather than twin phono, so it's more suited to connecting to a PC/MP3 player than a CD player, depending on what leads you have of course. It's also plasticy and gives the impression it wouldn't take too much abuse to break it, but if it's just gonna sit on your desk and you don't bang it around or drop I'm sure it'll be fine. Obviously reliability remains to be seen.
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I'm also fed of my £30 logitech 2.1 system and this seems like a great idea especially as I don't have much space. Are the JBL control 1 speakers particularly big because ideally I need some speakers that can sit on the desk either side of my monitor? Is it quite easy to setup because I don't really have much of a clue when it comes to sound equipment:o?

Edit: found the dimensions, but would it be a bad idea to have the speakers approx 1m apart and only about 2 feet or less away from me?
 
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