Please help me with Sound Upgrade (Stereo Speakers, Amp and sound card)

alx · 10 Apr 2006 at 19:09

jellybeard999 said:
seperate...

get reasonable cable ... about £3 a metre, but if you only need 3 or 4 metres, its not so bad...

if youre room is massive, your in for a big cost lol

Cheers, no i'll only need a meter or 2. I'm just not sure whether it will be a good idea having bookshelf speaks only 1m apart and less than 1m from where i sit :/

DRZ · 10 Apr 2006 at 19:10

Oh dear.

4 ohm speakers wil not make anything "louder" at all. The resistance of the speaker has nothing to do with it. Almost all 4 ohm speakers are harder to drive than 8 ohm speakers. What does matter is how sensitive they are.. With low power amps you need high sensitivity.

What you have discovered there about the "plenty of volume" from such a "low power" device is that power doesnt matter - something I (and many others) have been saying for ages here (to little avail). Look for 89dB/1W/1m at a minimum.

As for those B&Ws being "better" than Mission speakers, well, not strictly true. For a start, it is all down to personal preference (and I cannot STAND 602s). They have a high tolerance for abuse and a lot of people that buy them tend to be clueless about "what they want" from a hifi (quoting my local hifi shop manager, boss of a mate who works there). Good as a starter setup but compared to other speakers that are similarly priced they are tiring to listen to.

I would suggest that from reading about (and never hearing) those Class-T amps that you DONT want something like a 602 S3 at all, the two combined will have your ears running for the hills much faster than even a Rotel setup! Look at the Kef Qs, Mission m7 series (or m3 if you must buy new) or perhaps Mourdant Short.

peteruk · 10 Apr 2006 at 21:38

DRZ said:
Good as a starter setup

Sounds good but...

DRZ said:
I would suggest that from reading about (and never hearing) those Class-T amps that you DONT want something like a 602 S3 at all, the two combined will have your ears running for the hills much faster than even a Rotel setup!

Ah, what do you mean exactly?

And there I was, setup all sorted...

DRZ · 11 Apr 2006 at 00:31

Well, I will start this post by saying In My Opinion:

602s as a general rule are uncompromisingly harsh. To my ears, they were excessively cutting and after 10 minutes of listening I just wanted to turn them off, regardless of amplification for the most part. I am not the only person that feels this way about them, and B&W speakers in general (they are all pretty much like that).

Combine that with a digital amp that is reputedly tiring to listen to and you just dont have a recipie for a good setup. I dare say that with the right speakers, the amp will shine but Im not going to state that as fact because I am yet to here one.

Unfortunately, extreme budget/DIY hifi has this sort of self-supporting hype cycle that is kind of hifi in general 'compressed' into this messy "Well, its cheap and I can listen to it, so I am going to declare it better than my £5000 300B/KT88 setup" without any real thought. Usually, this is followed a few months later by the purchase of the next best thing. It is all well and good doing that, but its far less hassle to just buy something good, tried and tested than to try and "keep up with the DIY Jones'".

Its something to think about, at least

peteruk · 11 Apr 2006 at 01:05

DRZ said:
Wise words from a Hi-Fi Master

That is indeed a good point to think about. I seem to have overlooked the reality of this decision and the need to mix and match components that work well together.

Thanks for the pointer; think it's back to the drawing board for me.

Part of me wants to go for the Sonic T and B&W 601s just to see what it's actually like and judge that on future purchases, but I haven't really the funds to make second purchases.

DRZ · 11 Apr 2006 at 01:46

peteruk said:
Part of me wants to go for the Sonic T and B&W 601s just to see what it's actually like and judge that on future purchases, but I haven't really the funds to make second purchases.

Tip:

Take the plunge and get the T-Amp. If you like it, its £30 well spent. If you dont, its £30 of education on why cheap amplification is rubbish (or whatever price difference once you have sold it on).

Take this T-Amp to your local hifi shop. Pass by Richer Sounds at this point, you can do without the people that work there at this stage in the game! I cant imagine a single high street hifi shop in the UK without one pair of 602 S3s in stock (or due in very soon) because the number of people and pick up a comic (sorry, what hifi) and just go out and buy them is rather high

Ask for a dem, pick a middle of the range CDP, perhaps a budget offering from Marantz and ask to use the Class T amp with it. If they are worth their salt, they will oblige. If they dont, go somewhere else that will

Although "silly money" in comparison to the T-Amp (or A1), you might want to ask if you can hear the entry offerings from Rotel (RA-01) and NAD (C320BEE) just so you can see how much difference an amplifier can make to the sound. As you are there, you may as well try the (god awful) Mission V61s or the (better) Kef Qs in addition to the B&W offerings. If you like the Kefs and want to go for them, try and see if you can squeeze them on price - Kef speakers are usually a bit cheaper to buy than the others so they often have a bigger markup that you can talk your way into

bigredshark · 11 Apr 2006 at 02:43

I came close to buying a cambridge audio amp but on a whim listened to a NAD C320BEE, which was absolutely fantastic. absolutely no question, also, i've found the build quality on the CA azur series to be less than their usual high standard

Speakers wise the b&w ones are technically very good, they're very accurate speakers but as a result the sound isn't very warm. you may get on well with them but I'd compare them to something with more warmth in a shop though.

Codmate · 11 Apr 2006 at 09:54

NAD and Wharfedale for the budget win IMO

peteruk · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:14

Unfortunately, living 'out in the sticks', means that I don't get access to such HiFi shops very often

. However, I did notice last city trip, that my nearest Topshop (I know it's no Hi-Fi shop but...

) had what I am pretty certain were B&W 601/602s and I can now see what people mean about them. The sound seemed very alive and precise, but strangely abrasive.

Looking at alternatives, the Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 look like a good candidate, as do Fish99's Eltax Monitor 3.

Those Mission M3 or M7 seem very hard to come across

. Are 700s (like the 71i) from that range? :confused:

Comments, please.

As for Amps, I doubt I'll beat the value of the Sonic T, although people do seem to rave about the C320BEE.

DRZ · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:26

M3 and M7 are a series designation

Just add a 1/2/3/4/5 and an i and you are away

m71is are a very nice speaker indeed. The older 701s are also fantastic, though a bit brighter.

Dont discount the Kef Qs!

peteruk · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:46

Thanks mate; do you mind if I add you on MSN?

Codmate · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:50

peteruk said:
Unfortunately, living 'out in the sticks', means that I don't get access to such HiFi shops very often. However, I did notice last city trip, that my nearest Topshop (I know it's no Hi-Fi shop but... ) had what I am pretty certain were B&W 601/602s and I can now see what people mean about them. The sound seemed very alive and precise, but strangely abrasive.

Looking at alternatives, the Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 look like a good candidate, as do Fish99's Eltax Monitor 3.

Those Mission M3 or M7 seem very hard to come across . Are 700s (like the 71i) from that range?

Comments, please.

As for Amps, I doubt I'll beat the value of the Sonic T, although people do seem to rave about the C320BEE.

I have an old Nad 3020i and Wharfedale Diamond Pro speakers from around 1995 - still going strong and sounding good

The C320BEE looks amazing - gotta love all those connection options, and it looks like a true budget champion! I'm tempted to move the old 3020i to the kitchen and get a C320BEE for my home studio.

I like Wharfedale Diamond series speakers very much, but speakers are rather a personal thing. What I will say is that my Diamond Pros complement my Nad 3020i perfectly. There is actually some semblance of proper stereo imaging, which is virtually a miracle at these prices!

Nothing against the other speakers though - I've also head Mordaunt Short speakers performing nicely with NAD gear, so it may be worth a trip to a hi-fi store to A/B some and see which you prefer.

IMO if you got this:
http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/product.asp?id=878

...and these...
http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/product.asp?id=3433

...you would be far from dissapointed, and they would last you years and years if my experience with their ancient ancestors are anything to go by!

DRZ · 11 Apr 2006 at 16:21

peteruk said:
Thanks mate; do you mind if I add you on MSN?

Done

Dont take anything anyone says to you as gospel - even me! Go and use your own ears to judge

-Ad- · 12 Apr 2006 at 12:10

I recommend arcam all the way. I love the warm sound

try and pick up a delta 290 integrated amp for £100, as it is a great little amp.
I'm not really familiar with which second hand speakers to go for, so il let the other guys help you out.

If you want to get a cd player eventually, then buy a marantz cd-63 (the standard one, not the SE or KI) for ~50, and read up a little on how to modify it. I have learned how to modify mine fully, and with a little time and £150 (spent over a certain time period) this cdp can really show you how little the latest entry and mid-range cdp's have come on in the last 10 years

ad

peteruk · 13 Apr 2006 at 12:19

OK on impulse I have gone for some second hand Mission M72, that are very close relatives to the highly praised M71.

Now though, I have to decide on stands. After seeing what fish99 said, any Atacama stand range looks good, I just have to decide on the height. So basically, what is the ideal speaker elevation? My guess would be that the middle of the speaker should be ear height or similiar?

Codmate · 13 Apr 2006 at 14:20

peteruk said:
OK on impulse I have gone for some second hand Mission M72, that are very close relatives to the highly praised M71.

Now though, I have to decide on stands. After seeing what fish99 said, any Atacama stand range looks good, I just have to decide on the height. So basically, what is the ideal speaker elevation? My guess would be that the middle of the speaker should be ear height or similiar?

Tweeters at ear height as the bass frequencies are less directional

peteruk · 13 Apr 2006 at 14:37

Codmate said:
Tweeters at ear height as the bass frequencies are less directional

Cheers, I take it...

The small bottom speakers are the tweeters?

DRZ · 13 Apr 2006 at 22:25

Correct. If you are using them at your PC "normal" speaker stands simply arent going to be high enough though.

peteruk · 14 Apr 2006 at 12:40

DRZ said:
Correct. If you are using them at your PC "normal" speaker stands simply arent going to be high enough though.

Maybe, but I actually sit on my bed to use the PC (yes my room is in fact that small), so, 1m stands might just do it. I'm thinking the Atacama Nexus 10; if anyone else would like to praise any stand ranges please do.

Alternatively though, what would you suggest for "not-normal" speaker stands, if it ends up I need a bit more height?

fish99 · 14 Apr 2006 at 12:59

Got my setup sorted now - got the JBL Control 1's to go with my Sonic Impact t-amp. Also it turns out that the Control 1's will screw straight onto some satellite stands I already had sat around doing nothing, so that's saved me some money.

They sound superb, genuine hi-fi sound and plenty of detail. Made a huge difference getting them up in the air and off the PC desk too.