Total War: Warhammer DX12 boost for AMD still can't match Nvidia's DX11 performance

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 02:40

If Doom's Vulkan update is an example of a vendor agnostic approach to low-level API support, the Warhammer DX12 public beta is on the opposite end of the spectrum. This is a patch that's really only useful to AMD users right now, and unless the developer goes back to do additional tuning for non-AMD GPUs, that's unlikely to change. Given the AMD Gaming Evolved branding, I wouldn't really expect them to spend a lot more effort on improving Nvidia performance. More perplexing however is the gulf between AMD and Nvidia performance under DX11, which ideally shouldn't have existed in the first place.

It's a strange new world we live in when a game can be promoted by a hardware vendor and yet fail to deliver good performance for more than a month after launch. I'd guess the publisher wanted to get the main product released and felt there was no need to delay that just so the developer could 'finish' working on the DX12 version (which is basically the same thing we've seen with Doom's Vulkan update, Hitman's DX12 patch, and to a lesser extent Rise of the Tomb Raider's DX12 support). The concern is that if this sort of behavior continues, low-level API support may end up being a second class citizen.

Even now, nearly two months after launch, Warhammer's DX12 support is still classified as 'beta,' and I have to wonder when—or if—that classification will ever be removed. Rise of the Tomb Raider could call their DX12 support 'beta' as well, and it has a disclaimer whenever you enable the feature: "Using the DirectX 12 API can offer significantly better performance on some systems; however, it will not be beneficial on all." Most of the games with DX12 or Vulkan support so far should have a similar disclaimer, and that's part of the concern with low-level APIs.

Source http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-wa...source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

I said posted a similar topic ,however, PC gamer has confirmed what i posted 2 weeks ago. AMD gaming evolved are all forced DX12 attempts to market share not matter how much it effects the game.

Hitman 2016 ,which is on par with Xbox 360 level of animation requires R9 390+ async to run ultra @ 1080p.

Greebo · 23 Jul 2016 at 02:52

I don't see your point? The 480 is clearly beating it's competition, the 1060......

And it would appear nvidia cards can't handle dx12.....yet

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 02:58

Greebo said:
I don't see your point? The 480 is clearly beating it's competition, the 1060......

And it would appear nvidia cards can't handle dx12.....yet

My point is that it is a force port. How can DX12 is not benefiting CPU when it primary purpose is to reduce CPU overhead?

Why AMD is not beating gimps card in DX11 when they have the advantage of Async and DX12 ,where as Nvidia on DX11 is 20% to 30% faster then AMD on DX12.

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:02

360 Level for Hitman PC version? You for real?
1080 and 1070 is just using brute force right now. DX12 is still very much early days you can tell by just how much different performance is across all games its up and down.

We need a games built from the ground up using the DX12 API just to get an idea how well it can work out, So far two games that AMD do really well in and are DX12 only is Quantum Break and Forza 6
Having games like Tomb Raider built on DX11 and having DX12 patched in isn't doing this API any favours sadly.

Greebo · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:03

Doom112 said:
My point is that it is a force port. How can DX12 is not benefiting CPU when it primary purpose is to reduce CPU overhead?

Why AMD is not beating gimps card in DX11 when they have the advantage of Async and DX12 ,where as Nvidia on DX11 is 20% to 30% faster then AMD on DX12.

Again it isn't with current gen cards. Dx12 on a 480 matches dx11 on a 1060 so both cards evenly matched.

Which is what you would expect looking at their computing power.

More of a concern is why most nvidia cards perform so poorly in dx12......

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:06

shankly1985 said:
360 Level for Hitman PC version? You for real?
1080 and 1070 is just using brute force right now. DX12 is still very much early days you can tell by just how much different performance is across all games its up and down.

We need a games built from the ground up using the DX12 API just to get an idea how well it can work out, So far two games that AMD do really well in and are DX12 only is Quantum Break and Forza 6
Having games like Tomb Raider built on DX11 and having DX12 patched in isn't doing this API any favours sadly.

Right now Rise of the Tomb Raider is the DX12 game graphic wise. At least rise of the tomb raider DX12 port benefits from low end CPU ,however, most force AMD gaming evolve DX12 ports does not.

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:07

Greebo said:
Again it isn't with current gen cards. Dx12 on a 480 matches dx11 on a 1060 so both cards evenly matched.

Which is what you would expect looking at their computing power.

More of a concern is why most nvidia cards perform so poorly in dx12......

It really is a concern for Nvidia, with DX12 games coming and they still not sorted the Drivers out AMD will have decent gains in a lot of DX12 only titles in the future.

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:07

Greebo said:
Again it isn't with current gen cards. Dx12 on a 480 matches dx11 on a 1060 so both cards evenly matched.

Which is what you would expect looking at their computing power.

More of a concern is why most nvidia cards perform so poorly in dx12......

Yes mostly in AMD gaming evolve.

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:11

Doom112 said:
Right now Rise of the Tomb Raider is the DX12 game graphic wise. At least rise of the tomb raider DX12 port benefits from low end CPU ,however, most force AMD gaming evolve DX12 ports does not.

But ATM DX12 on Tomb Raider is horrible for both AMD and Nvidia its a not a good showcase for DX12 ONE bit! Graphics = same has DX11 so your point there is mute.

An excellent Showcase for DX12 is Forza 6 Stunning looking also.

Full maxed out only AA on dynamic @1440p with an aging AMD 290 This so far is easy the best DX12 game on offer, Next would be Hitman and Quantum Break now that they patched it.

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:13

Doom112 said:
Yes mostly in AMD gaming evolve.

In All* DX12 games Nvidia does better with DX11... This is BIG concern for Nvidia DX12 & Vulkan for that matter performance. Future Titles for Nvidia at this moment isn't shaping up very well....

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:15

shankly1985 said:
But ATM DX12 on Tomb Raider is horrible for both AMD and Nvidia its a not a good showcase for DX12 ONE bit! Graphics = same has DX11 so your point there is mute.

An excellent Showcase for DX12 is Forza 6 Stunning looking also.

Full maxed out only AA on dynamic @1440p with an aging AMD 290 This so far is easy the best DX12 game on offer, Next would be Hitman and Quantum Break now that they patched it.

My point is Rise of the tomb radier does not break the performance like most forced AMD evolve DX12 ports.

How can Total Warhammer DX12 is not benefiting CPU or reduce overhead compare to DX11?

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:15

shankly1985 said:
In All* DX12 games Nvidia does better with DX11... This is BIG concern for Nvidia DX12 & Vulkan for that matter performance. Future Titles for Nvidia at this moment isn't shaping up very well....

Rise of the Tomb Rader benefits Nvidia on DX12, Gears of Wars Ultimate Edition and 3d mark spy.

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:19

Doom112 said:
My point Rise of the tomb radier does not break the performance like most forced AMD evolve DX12 ports.

How can Total Warhammer DX12 is not benefiting CPU or reduce overhead compare to DX11?

Might want to ask the Devs? Don't Look at 1080 vs FuryX not even in the same ball park.. You should be comparing 980ti vs FuryX etc! And they is very little in it!
We really discussing over 5 FPS?

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:21

shankly1985 said:
Might want to ask the Devs? Don't Look at 1080 vs FuryX not even in the same ball park.. You should be comparing 980ti vs FuryX etc! And they is very little in it!
We really discussing over 5 FPS?

My point is only this.

We’re pleased to confirm that Total War: WARHAMMER will also be DX12 compatible, and our graphics team has been working in close concert with AMD’s engineers on the implementation. This will be patched in a little after the game launches, but we’re really happy with the DX12 performance we’re seeing so far.

If they worked with Nvidia or took their input on DX12 then i am sure that at least it would not get negative results. They only worked with AMD due to AMD gaming evolve program.

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:29

Doom112 said:
Rise of the Tomb Rader benefits Nvidia on DX12, Gears of Wars Ultimate Edition and 3d mark spy.

Nvidia isn't gaining Jack from DX12 in Tomb Raider here is just a couple of benchmarks. Not seen any recent Benchmarks with GOW and latest Patch. 3Dmark well they is an going debate over its use of Async compute.

Score 64.16, Min 39.31, GPU 980 Ti @1570/2102, CPU 4930k @4.0, Kaapstad Link DX11 359.91 Drivers
Score 63.25, Min 30.43, GPU 980 Ti @1570/2127, CPU 4930k @4.5, Kaapstad Link DX12 364.51 Drivers

Only this Run got increase
Score 48.67, Min 26.38, GPU 980 Ti @1203/1753, CPU 4790k @4.0, easyrider Link DX12 364.51 Drivers
Score 45.03, Min 25.03, GPU 980 Ti @1203/1753, CPU 4790k @4.0, easyrider Link DX11 364.51 Drivers

Score 50.89, Min 25.13, GPU 1080 @2039/2700, CPU 3930k @4.4, Gregster Link DX11 368.39 Drivers
Score 40.91, Min 32.52, GPU 1080 @2039/2700, CPU 3930k @4.4, Gregster Link DX12 368.39 Drivers

Score 36.99, Min 20.32, GPU TitanX @1150/1753, CPU 5960X @4.3, andrewohare Link DX11 364.51 Drivers
Score 35.15, Min 23.62, GPU TitanX @1150/1753, CPU 5960X @4.3, andrewohare Link DX12 364.51 Drivers

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 03:35

If we look at AMDs DX12 performance on Tomb Raider they do in fact gain some. But the benchmark thread dont have much to go on.

Score 37.66, Min 8.92, GPU 290X @1220/1650, CPU 4790k @4.7, thebennyboy Link DX12 16.7.2 Drivers
Score 33.87, Min 8.15, GPU 290X @1240/1600, CPU 4790k @4.7, thebennyboy Link DX11 16.3 Drivers

Score 36.82, Min 8.86, GPU Fury P @1040/500, CPU 930 @4.0, sothur Link DX12 16.7.1 Drivers
Score 32.16, Min 7.20, GPU Fury P @1040/500, CPU 930 @4.0, sothur Link DX11 16.7.1 Drivers

Not sure about above running the Async patch
But here is more

thebennyboy said:
Some exceptional performance improvements on my 290X.

Before: 78.71FPS

After: 93.57FPS

Improvement: 17.25%

Nexus18 said:
I thought when the first dx 12 patch came along, we were told that async was being used? So now it was never implemented in the first place??? Would certainly explain the lack lustre improvements for AMD cards first time round now...

Funny timing this eh.....

Anyway,

DX 11:

DX 12:

Very nice improvement on my PC Shame it took this long for improvements though as I will probably never play the game again...

Last here mine

shankly1985 said:
i7 3770k @4.2 with AMD 290 @1050/1300

1080p SMAA - All Maxed apart from Textures on High and Motion Blur Disabled.
DX12 on the left - DX11 on the Right

1440p SMAA - All Maxed apart from Textures on High and Motion Blur Disabled.
DX12 on the left - DX11 on the Right

Gregster said:
No gains for me on my 1080 sadly but DX12 has improved over the previous DX12 patch.

Stealthploit · 23 Jul 2016 at 04:20

Nvidia will sort it out tho
btw i was hoping a bit more from dx12

Freddie1980 · 23 Jul 2016 at 04:50

Your point was that AMD couldn't match Nvidia performance in TW:Warhammer no what API was being used, it says so in the thread title when in fact AMD clearly does the (480 and 1060 are neck and neck).

r7slayer · 23 Jul 2016 at 05:21

Yawn... Fanboi threads be boring

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 06:18

shankly1985 said:
If we look at AMDs DX12 performance on Tomb Raider they do in fact gain some. But the benchmark thread dont have much to go on.

Score 37.66, Min 8.92, GPU 290X @1220/1650, CPU 4790k @4.7, thebennyboy Link DX12 16.7.2 Drivers
Score 33.87, Min 8.15, GPU 290X @1240/1600, CPU 4790k @4.7, thebennyboy Link DX11 16.3 Drivers

Score 36.82, Min 8.86, GPU Fury P @1040/500, CPU 930 @4.0, sothur Link DX12 16.7.1 Drivers
Score 32.16, Min 7.20, GPU Fury P @1040/500, CPU 930 @4.0, sothur Link DX11 16.7.1 Drivers

Not sure about above running the Async patch
But here is more

Last here mine

I am getting gains.
DX11

DX12

it reducing CPU bottleneck for both AMD and Nvidia ,however, not like it only enable force DX12 async so that AMD can match Nvidia performance on DX11.