Total War: Warhammer DX12 boost for AMD still can't match Nvidia's DX11 performance

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 06:55

on Unbiased games you will see results like these.

Both are gaining performance ,not like gaming evolve DX12, which only enable Async ,however the purpose of DX12 is to reducing cpu bottleneck and none of AMD gaming evolve has done it yet.

SiDeards73 · 23 Jul 2016 at 06:57

Is this dudes argument basically crying because AMD see some gains in AMD sponsored titles and Nvidia do not?

If so hahaha that's hilarious

Or maybe he's crying that Nvidia are not seeing the gains AMD do because Nvidia cards are already running at around 95% of their theoretical performance due to their design to use basically brute force, and AMD gains are due to dormant hardware finally being realised and utilised, and also down to the fact a lot of Vulcan and DX12 springs from Mantle

I can imagine him having nightmares once we see Vega and more DX12 / Vulcan games

Freddie1980 · 23 Jul 2016 at 07:50

Doom112 said:
it reducing CPU bottleneck for both AMD and Nvidia ,however, not like it only enable force DX12 async so that AMD can match Nvidia performance on DX11.

Are you Tony Williams posting from an alt account?

Do you know how a-sync works on GNC and Pascal/Maxwell? If A-sync is enabled it works across all GNC based cards as there's a dedicated A-sync engine in the GPU to enable it. Nvidia can enable A-sync but it has to be done in software (you can see evidence of this in Doom where the 1080 does get a small gain when Vulkan is enabled).

If A-sync is helping AMD in Total War then great eventually Nvidia will give us a driver to enable it. Also the hit Nvidia takes in DX12 is probably also holding back AMD as well so hopefully when this comes out of Beta and drivers are up to date we can all enjoy the performance.

SiDeards73 said:
I can imagine him having nightmares once we see Vega and more DX12 / Vulcan games

If we get more games written like Doom then Vega will be an absolute beast. Just look at the Fury X in Doom at the moment and it can keep pace with a 1070 according to Digital Foundry. Then again never underestimate AMD's talent at shooting itself in the foot.

Marine-RX179 · 23 Jul 2016 at 08:02

Freddie1980 said:
Are you Tony Williams posting from an alt account?

Nope, but I think quite a few people are already thinking this guy is LambChop's alternate account

SiDeards73 · 23 Jul 2016 at 08:09

Doubt it's Lambchop, this dudes English is obviously not his first language. But he is a massive Nvidia fan who can't grasp that AMD hardware is just better in a lot of DX12 and Vulcan because it's actually getting used correctly, where as in DX11 it lies dormant.

It strikes me as someone who bought an over priced Nvidia card and is upset that it does not get AMD gains in Vulcan and DX12, which means they have no basic understanding of the difference between Nvidia hardware and AMD GCN hardware

Probably best to just ignore his rambling

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 08:12

Marine-RX179 said:
Nope, but I think quite a few people are already thinking this guy is LambChop's alternate account

Yes a person telling facts is called joker to you. Some AMD fanboys really good at personal insult rather then just looking at facts.

Anyway i never post anything without prof or source.

on low end CPU AMD is still has a large bottleneck even on a low level API. Only some AMD users can justify buying a $350 CPU for a $2xx GPU. This is the reason why Nvidia holds more then 70% of GPU market.

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 08:18

SiDeards73 said:
Doubt it's Lambchop, this dudes English is obviously not his first language. But he is a massive Nvidia fan who can't grasp that AMD hardware is just better in a lot of DX12 and Vulcan because it's actually getting used correctly, where as in DX11 it lies dormant.

It strikes me as someone who bought an over priced Nvidia card and is upset that it does not get AMD gains in Vulcan and DX12, which means they have no basic understanding of the difference between Nvidia hardware and AMD GCN hardware

Probably best to just ignore his rambling

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18739938

I said the same thing few weeks back ,however, some are really good at personal insult. I do not care if it is AMD or Nvidia. I said the same thing on other forum as well , that game works is a cancer to PC gaming and now AMD evolve is worse then game works. Hitman and now Total Warhammer.

Game Works has no broken game this year. Most of broken games are part of DX12 or AMD gaming Evolve program.

N19h7m4r3 · 23 Jul 2016 at 08:55

Stealthploit said:
Nvidia will sort it out tho
btw i was hoping a bit more from dx12

Sadly most of the DX12 implementation we have aren't actually real DX12. None of it's been built from from the group up with DX12 hardware as the minimum requirement.

They all have DX11 as a base to older systems can also play the game; a sad case that DX12 hardware hasn't taken the majority of market share just yet.

DICE wanted the min spec for Battlefield 1 to be DX12, but that didn't happen as the beta is DX11 at the moment as well.

Hopefully next year we'll start seeing better implementations.

N19h7m4r3 · 23 Jul 2016 at 09:03

Doom112 said:
Yes a person telling facts is called joker to you. Some AMD fanboys really good at personal insult rather then just looking at facts.

Anyway i never post anything without prof or source.

on low end CPU AMD is still has a large bottleneck even on a low level API. Only some AMD users can justify buying a $350 CPU for a $2xx GPU. This is the reason why Nvidia holds more then 70% of GPU market.

That's a nice test but has no bearing on your final statement. The i7 750 and X4 955 are a 7 year old CPUs. Both costing quite a lot. The 955 had an MSRP of $245, and the 750 $196.

Add inflation and both are more expensive than a much better budget CPU now; which will easily avoid any old bottleneck.

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 09:03

N19h7m4r3 said:
Sadly most of the DX12 implementation we have aren't actually real DX12. None of it's been built from from the group up with DX12 hardware as the minimum requirement.

They all have DX11 as a base to older systems can also play the game; a sad case that DX12 hardware hasn't taken the majority of market share just yet.

DICE wanted the min spec for Battlefield 1 to be DX12, but that didn't happen as the beta is DX11 at the moment as well.

Hopefully next year we'll start seeing better implementations.

only ATOS and Doom more base towards low level API. That is why both AMD and Nvidia are gaining.

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 09:07

N19h7m4r3 said:
That's a nice test but has no bearing on your final statement. The i7 750 and X4 955 are a 7 year old CPUs. Both costing quite a lot. The 955 had an MSRP of $245, and the 750 $196.

Add inflation and both are more expensive than a much better budget CPU now; which will easily avoid any old bottleneck.

Yes they are and still it is running fine on a Nvidia mid range Gpu. Most of the review are running a mid range GPU with a high end setup. 480 is aimed at mid range setups not 6700K PCs ,therefore, most people who buy 480 will have i3 or i5 old CPUs.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 23 Jul 2016 at 09:32

Rollo is that you?

N19h7m4r3 · 23 Jul 2016 at 09:36

Doom112 said:
Yes they are and still it is running fine on a Nvidia mid range Gpu. Most of the review are running a mid range GPU with a high end setup. 480 is aimed at mid range setups not 6700K PCs ,therefore, most people who buy 480 will have i3 or i5 old CPUs.

Old yes, but 7+ years is far older than than the average budget gamer looking at Steam Hardware survey alone. Seven years ago those CPUs would have been paired with $200+ GPUs a well, sometimes higher grade as well; and a $200+ GPU back then was a nice upper mid range one like the GTX 260 or AMD 4850 which would be the equivalent of GTX 1070 today.

Even an i5 2400 or 2nd hand 2500K would not bottleneck as severely and cost less than your $350. In fact Sandy Bridge CPUs are still some of the best ones you can get for gaming especially considering their awesome second hand value.

Your pricing and time scale is off.

fs123 · 23 Jul 2016 at 10:09

Doom112 said:
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18739938

I said the same thing few weeks back ,however, some are really good at personal insult. I do not care if it is AMD or Nvidia. I said the same thing on other forum as well , that game works is a cancer to PC gaming and now AMD evolve is worse then game works. Hitman and now Total Warhammer.

Game Works has no broken game this year. Most of broken games are part of DX12 or AMD gaming Evolve program.

Quantum Break, Forza 6 Apex are DX12 only but are not Gaming Evolved titles. They are Xbox One ports hence why AMD gains.

Of course AMD /Nvidia sponsored games will favour AMD/Nvidia but not all the new games are sponsored. Console ports will normally be expected to favour AMD since the consoles are the same GCN architecture. Tombraider was the only console port that goes against this trend because it was Nvidia sponsored.

motiv · 23 Jul 2016 at 10:58

So what is the outcome here? If it's a console port, AMD gaming evolve DX12 or Vulcan game, then AMD is far better in a price/performance range, otherwise it's neck on neck?

I really don't get what I'm reading here.

fs123 · 23 Jul 2016 at 11:13

motiv said:
So what is the outcome here? If it's a console port, AMD gaming evolve DX12 or Vulcan game, then AMD is far better in a price/performance range, otherwise it's neck on neck?

I really don't get what I'm reading here.

That is the crux of it but the OP seems to be complaining that the games that favour AMD are gaming evolved titles so are being gimped for Nvidia.

Every Microsoft released game on the Windows store appears to be favouring AMD cards ( even Gears of War UE and Killer Instinct :eek:

).

AMD must have a lot of money if they can make all them games Gaming Evolved titles /s.

Doom112 · 23 Jul 2016 at 11:25

fs123 said:
That is the crux of it but the OP seems to be complaining that the games that favour AMD are gaming evolved titles so are being gimped for Nvidia.

Every Microsoft released game on the Windows store appears to be favouring AMD cards ( even Gears of War UE and Killer Instinct ).

AMD must have a lot of money if they can make all them games Gaming Evolved titles /s.

No i am not and that is why some people get it wrong. What i am saying DX12 purpose is to benefit CPU and reduce overhead compare to DX11 ,however, in AMD gaming evolve titles none of DX12 games has done yet expect Doom and Rise of the Tomb Raider. Moreover, even with the help of DX12+ Async AMD cannot match Nvidia DX11 performance in this game ,which is embarrassing for CA and AMD join project.

shankly1985 · 23 Jul 2016 at 11:35

Doom112 said:
only ATOS and Doom more base towards low level API. That is why both AMD and Nvidia are gaining.

Wrong they is more. Windows store has exclusive DX12 only games.

tommybhoy · 23 Jul 2016 at 11:39

I'm confused, is the op whining that AMD gimp GE DX12 titles for Nv despite the example used running faster on Nv gpu's?

Or that AMD's DX12 titles are crap because one of them is bugged while Nv's single DX12 title's build has ran like crap until the recent patch?

Or not happy that AMD see bigger gains going from DX11 to DX12 because DX11 performance in comparison is poor to Nv's excellent superior DX11, while Nv don't see large gains because they can't code proper DX12 support on hardware that arguably can't support anything in the way of AMD's Async implementation as they only have pre-emption?

No offence, but if Nv can't get any Async working on their eol 9 series, what ****ing chance have AMD got making it work for them when Nv cba delivering what they promised in the first place?

fs123 · 23 Jul 2016 at 11:41

Doom112 said:
No i am not and that is why some people get it wrong. What i am saying DX12 purpose is to benefit CPU and reduce overhead compare to DX11 ,however, in AMD gaming evolve titles none of DX12 games has done yet expect Doom and Rise of the Tomb Raider. Moreover, even with the help of DX12+ Async AMD cannot match Nvidia DX11 performance in this game ,which is embarrassing for CA and AMD join project.

If you are talking about RoTTR then it's a Nvidia sponsored game. The game simply has some Gameworks features that AMD cannot optimize for at all. DX12 async was not even added to the game since a few weeks ago and that can only improve the game by around 10-15% anyway.

DX12 if done, properly, gets rid of the driver overhead faced by AMD cards hence why you see the older AMD cards matching or beating newer Nvidia cards now. If AMD could get rid of the driver overhead in DX11 then they scenario would be totally different with AMD also showing smaller jumps between DX11 and DX12 performance.