Commercial battery banks

Orionaut

Orionaut

Orionaut

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Somebody is proposing to site a commercial battery bank just up the road from where I live (half a mile or so).

The planning application published on the local council website provides no technical details what-so-ever. (Just loads of waffle on how "Green" it is all going to be :rolleyes:)

It is however, clearly a modular system based on shipping containers, 18 in all. This is going to be a substantial installation

There is no detail as to what the battery tech actually is but a quick googling suggests that systems like this might well use Lion or even Sodium/Sulphur.

Fires in such installations are not unheard of. :eek:

I must say, the idea of having an industrial site containing "many" tons of highly toxic and reactive (explosive even) chemicals just up the road from me bothers me somewhat!

"Batteries" are not a benign technology. They really are a controlled chemical explosion. a large capacity battery bank has the potential to release a very large amount of energy in a very short time if it all goes horribly wrong.

Sodium and Lithium fires are extremely difficult to extinguish and if you are down wind of a major sulphur fire you will die (And very very unpleasantly)

I really would be happier living next to a nuke!

How would you feel?
 
There is a big battery bank not too far from me, but it's owned and operated by one of the electricity/supply companies in a specifically built building.

I'm not sure I'd be happy about a facility built around shipping containers.
 
i'd want some pretty hefty re-assurance for their safety procedures in the event of the worst.

i've only seen/smelt small scale lithium fires (with most of the reek having been taken by extractor fans) and honest to god it is the worst smelling thing around even in low concentrations, i would not want to be downwind of a lithium shipping container going off, the s10 respirator is not a stupid thing to own if that happens.
 
anyone else going to Tesco's?

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adolf hamster said:
i'd want some pretty hefty re-assurance for their safety procedures in the event of the worst.
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I sent my comment to the local council saying pretty much just that!

As yet, I have not had a response /:

Trouble is, most people dont have a ****ing clue!

Nobody is going to object to this (Its nice an green innit, and batteries are just nice little boxes that just sit there and you can put electricity into them and then take it out later )

And nobody in the LA decision making process is going to have any concept of the technical issues involved. :eek:

I know what I am talking about here, I was actually a local Town Councillor for a while, the whole thing just frustrated me at the time, but I might consider doing it again in the future, especially if stuff like this is going to become more of an issue! And although it is not my current business, and I have been out of that particular game for a very long time, I also have an Electrical Engineering degree, So I believe that I actually do have something of an appreciation of the issues here!
 
like normal you complain about anything and everything.

there's nothing to feel here, you have massively overstated the risk and obviously have no understanding of it.
 
Why don't you ask them what tech and safeguards will be put in place. That's the whole point of the planning phase - to make you aware of the proposal and ensure you get time to ask questions.

EDIT:- I see you have. Don't expect an immediate response - they'll collate similar questions and answer them as an all encompassing response.
 
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amigafan2003 said:
Why don't you ask them what tech and safeguards will be put in place. That's the whole point of the planning phase - to make you aware of the proposal and ensure you get time to ask questions.

EDIT:- I see you have. Don't expect an immediate response - they'll collate similar questions and answer them as an all encompassing response.
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As I said, I have asked and have not yet had a response.

I will of course let you know if/when I get one.

The thing is this is all seeming to be going under the radar. The time between the initial announcement and the closing time for comments is about six weeks, there has been no significant comment in the local media. This has the makings of something that will go through on a nod simply because nobody knew it was happening.

you have massively overstated the risk and obviously have no understanding of it.
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Ya reckon?

I understand that batteries can contain very large amounts of energy and if they go wrong, that energy can be released very rapidly. In any other environment that would be called an explosion.

High energy density Batteries tend to use highly reactive/toxic materials (That is how they achieve their high energy density) if they go wrong the consequences can be severe. An exploding i-phone is one thing, an exploding shipping container with a 15 ton Lion battery in it is going to be another thing all together!

It is even worse if this is going to be Sodium /Sulphur. really not a nice thing to be down wind of!

I am not impressed with this proposal!!
 
facepalm pic neede.d no they are not that risky, no you aren't going to be in danger of "explosion" over a mile away.
and no it is no different to other places that hold chemicals. they aren't even particularly bad chemicals, they are also reliable. We aren't talking Lipos that are being abused with little battery management systems here.

what you are doing is comparing worst case abused hobby batteries, with vastly more capable and safe storage systems.

what project is it?

oh no I better freak out, have a massive port, nuclear power station, massive petrol depot all in close proximity as well as numerous industrial estates, I must freak out like you. Oh wait maybe not, apply a bit more logic and a little less scaremongering.

this is a perfect example of why planning permission should have less involvement from public and a much narrower reason to complain. if it doesn't meet safety standards then it wouldnt get planning permission anyway.
 
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The explosion isnt the issue, the massive cloud of toxic fumes that will result is.

And as low as the risk of an explosion may be in a well managed system, any risk boils down to the two sided statement of it will happen or it will not, seeing as you can never guarantee it wont happen its reasonable to ask what backup there is in place in case the worst should happen.
 
Just get them to fit sirens incase of incident. Cheap enough and when you hear them you know it's time to get moving. Chances of ever hearing them in a properly maintained system are near nill though.

To be fair I imagine you'd find out about an incident via social media within minutes. Heck you'd hear the bang should it happen.
 
To answer the question in the OP, I wouldn't be too concerned. The safety requirements are presumably just as stringent (relative to the threat) as any other utility. The contractor or whoever is involved in procurement will presumably have some experience.

Plus they should be able to answer your concerns during the planning process.

Yes you could potentially die in a battery explosion toxic gas cloud, but do you know the likelihood of that happening? Probably more likely to die in a freak gasoline fight accident.
 
Can someone clear up what one of these installations actually is?

Is it literally some massive batteries hooked up to the national grid to charge and then used for something?
 
Thekwango said:
Are you for real?!



Again, I ask are you for real.
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:rolleyes: got anything worth while to say.
lots of good projects in the uk get stopped due to excessive public intervention from busy bodies who don't have a clue.

tom_e said:
Can someone clear up what one of these installations actually is?

Is it literally some massive batteries hooked up to the national grid to charge and then used for something?
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yes, depending on what type, can be massive battery, or 10s of thousands of normal sized batteries.
 
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