2005/2006 F1 News and Testing.

Flibster · 24 Oct 2005 at 19:22

Sadly not - it appears that it'd been voted in by the team bosses with the proviso of the the teams technical directors have to ok it as well.

So thats in for 2007 by the sounds of it.

The obvious problems:
only secured 1 side...
Reduced sponsorship area
Looks hideous

Why not go with a reduced profile rear wing and a high tolerance front wing - A1GP did. - Oh look - close racing...

Force through a maximum downforce level for the car and also also ban flipups and the like - that will force teams to reduce drag and as such reduce turbulent air.

SImon/~Flibster

Shoei · 24 Oct 2005 at 20:04

mctiny said:
Qualifing should be back to the old format of two 2 hour sessions, agregate times and 12 laps. maybe running the laps in 3 lap stints ( out lap-fast lap-in lap) once in a 15 minutes session and have four sessions per hour. I.e. 0minutes -15minutes, 15-30, 30-45, 45-60.

Give em the MotoGP style qualifying, basically you get 60 mins to set a fast lap, any number of laps, tyre changes and tweaks to the bikes setup. Most teams use part of qualifying to run race setup on the bike to checks it working fine. The last 15 mins of MotoGP qualifying is great, every one pops on qualifier tyres and goes for it, pole can change numerous times in the space of minutes.

F1 is "supposed" to be the pinacle of motor sport, to me its loosing the plot and probably the audience.

Robb

Mic · 24 Oct 2005 at 20:07

I love that damn wing, it looks damn cool. Like some kinda of crazy fighter plane.

Arc · 24 Oct 2005 at 20:40

Shoei said:
Give em the MotoGP style qualifying, basically you get 60 mins to set a fast lap, any number of laps, tyre changes and tweaks to the bikes setup.

Thats kind of what they used to do

.

Worked fine in a sport sense but the sponsors/TV companies didnt like it.

Vertigo · 24 Oct 2005 at 20:55

Flibster said:
Oh dear - looks like tyre changes are back and refuelling is staying...

So - the no tyre changing in F1 ever - lasted 1 season...

How is that a cost reducing thing Max? Forcing them to redevelop the tyres from scratch each year? Nicely done...

Frankly I couldn't care less how much it costs, I strongly welcome the return of tyre changes. It may have contributed to some more interesting racing this year but firstly pit stops without tyre changes just seem wrong and secondly conservation of tyres throughout a race just seems daft for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport.

Force through a maximum downforce level for the car and also also ban flipups and the like - that will force teams to reduce drag and as such reduce turbulent air.

Why not just ban aero altogether?

Pros:
Slows the cars down in corners
No adverse aero effects preventing close racing
Drastically reduces costs
Levels the playing field some more, helping the minor teams
Less opportunity for retirements and ruined races due to minor altercations

Cons:
Less advertising space
Err...

mctiny · 24 Oct 2005 at 22:06

Shoei said:
Give em the MotoGP style qualifying, basically you get 60 mins to set a fast lap, any number of laps, tyre changes and tweaks to the bikes setup. Most teams use part of qualifying to run race setup on the bike to checks it working fine. The last 15 mins of MotoGP qualifying is great, every one pops on qualifier tyres and goes for it, pole can change numerous times in the space of minutes.

F1 is "supposed" to be the pinacle of motor sport, to me its loosing the plot and probably the audience.

Robb

In theory that's probably the best idea, but in practice the big boys would exploit it some way.

Could always have the superpole idea from World Superbikes

.

Arc · 24 Oct 2005 at 22:49

Vertigo1 said:
secondly conservation of tyres throughout a race just seems daft for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport.

I agree but conserving the tyres is a factor in any type of racing. F1 aint an endurance event, its a sprint (ok a 2 hour sprint) so there should be tyre changing allowed.

Vertigo1 said:
Why not just ban aero altogether?

Pros:
Slows the cars down in corners
No adverse aero effects preventing close racing
Drastically reduces costs
Levels the playing field some more, helping the minor teams
Less opportunity for retirements and ruined races due to minor altercations

Cons:
Less advertising space
Err...

It would be very difficult to ban aero all together, any modern car design takes aero into effect. Plus the cars couldnt run with the current power levels without any aero devices, which gets away from the pinnacle of motorsport tag. Wings have been about since 67, they aint the major problem. It would help those teams with the best wind tunnels to get their car perfectly profiled, big teams would win again.

Just go back to basics: slick tyres (one tyre manufacturer), limit downforce by a very large amount, ban any aero flip ups on the cars (barge boards, mid wings, flaps at the tyres) and have any number of engines you want (the teams cant afford to blow them up all the time). Refueling allowed, tyre changes in the GP allowed and a complete ban on driver aids including power steering, semi auto paddle shift boxes (get back to a gear stick and clutch, starts would be a lot better with that).

One thing that has definetly been talked about is getting rid of carbon fibre suspension and going back to steel/alloy. This would be heavier but wont break in the same way cf does (how many cars go out of a gp due to this over a season, its a lot).

karoshi · 25 Oct 2005 at 00:34

Shoei said:
Give em the MotoGP style qualifying, basically you get 60 mins to set a fast lap, any number of laps, tyre changes and tweaks to the bikes setup. Most teams use part of qualifying to run race setup on the bike to checks it working fine. The last 15 mins of MotoGP qualifying is great, every one pops on qualifier tyres and goes for it, pole can change numerous times in the space of minutes.

*sigh* i've been shouting that for the last three years

el_dazza · 25 Oct 2005 at 01:31

quali sounds good now, still cant beat the old hour long, 12 lappers. used to love watchin that

Shoei · 25 Oct 2005 at 08:39

el_dazza said:
quali sounds good now, still cant beat the old hour long, 12 lappers. used to love watchin that

But 12 laps is dull, no one out in the first 20 mins except for the lower teams getting some air time for the sponsers. Let em have unlimited laps and unlimited tyres, let em have super sticky qualifiers.
By the time the FIA have finished with the rules, F1 will be raced on a scalextrick track.

Robb

cossey3 · 25 Oct 2005 at 08:45

Flibster said:

is it just me but is the "old" wing deflecting the air up and the new one down, if you do a really basic fluid mechanics analysis of the it says the the bottom wing is generating lift not downforce. i know this is not true but it does mena that the new wing is probebly generating massively less downforce per unit length as well as having the center chopped out.

happytechie · 25 Oct 2005 at 08:54

I think that pressure chart is on the centre line of the car rather than where the wings are, to do a fluid mechanics analysis of a pressure chart you need a 3D chart.

But I think you are right there is a lot less downforce overall there. Perhaps less downforce would be fun, for a while, untill we realise thatthe drivers can't put all the power down at any point on the circuit as the rear wheels just spin up

HT

HT

Dutch Guy · 25 Oct 2005 at 09:13

happytechie said:
Perhaps less downforce would be fun, for a while, untill we realise thatthe drivers can't put all the power down at any point on the circuit as the rear wheels just spin up

Not if they keep the stupid traction control

happytechie · 25 Oct 2005 at 09:20

So are you up for big wings, big turbos and really wide sticky tyres

I look forward to 2000BHp cars doing 350 mph down a straight into a corner 3 cars wide. I guess we'll need 20 foot high armaco round the track to protect the crowd, and we'll loose quite a few drivers a year but it will be exciting

HT

Flibster · 25 Oct 2005 at 09:21

Third car rule remains

Despite claims that the third car rule will be dropped in 2006, the Formula One commission has chosen to retain it.

The idea, first introduced to assist small teams such as Minardi and Jordan in an effort to give them some extra testing and additional track time for sponsors, proved highly beneficial to successive 'big' teams that were able to take advantage of the rule.

In 2003, Renault used the Friday sessions to its advantage, eventually taking fourth in the World Championship. Responding to Ron Dennis, who had previously described the third cars as 'track cleaners', Flavio Briatore dedicated Fernando Alonso's Hungary win to the 'housewives of the world'.

In 2004, BAR used its third car to its advantage, taking the runner up spot behind Ferrari, while ironically, in 2005 it was McLaren that benefited, despite Dennis' attempts to wreck the rule in previous years, imposing all manner of limits on who could and couldn't drive the third car.

In 2006, WilliamsF1, BAR, Red Bull, BMW, Midlands and Squadra Toro Rosso will all make use of the third car rule - Midland having already announced that Nicky Pastorelli will drive its car.

Flibster · 25 Oct 2005 at 09:21

Pastorelli signs for Midland

Jordan Grand Prix and the Midland Group have announced that they have signed Nicky Pastorelli as the team's official test and Friday driver for the 2006 FIA Formula One World Championship. The talented 22 year-old Dutchman was already the official Jordan Grand Prix test driver in 2005 and was part of the Young Driver Development Program initiated by Midland F1 to help promising junior drivers confirm their talent in preparation for their entry into Formula One.

Colin Kolles, Managing Director of Jordan Grand Prix: "I have been watching Nicky's career for a few years now and I was convinced he could do a good job for the team. Therefore we decided to give him an opportunity as our official test driver in 2005. He proved himself very competent in F1 and now we are happy that he will continue working with us in 2006 to help us get the most out of Friday free practice sessions and at the same time he has an opportunity to keep on learning Formula One."

Nicky Pastorelli commented: "I am very happy to be given this great opportunity to drive for Midland in 2006 as the official test and Friday driver. During 2005, I have come to know and appreciate the team and I am delighted to be able to continue working with them in 2006. This also means that they were happy with the job I have done; so for me, this is very encouraging. I am really looking forward to 2006 and to doing my best for the team."

Flibster · 25 Oct 2005 at 09:23

F1 Commission agrees major rule changes

Formula 1’s key stakeholders have agreed on a raft of changes to the technical and sporting regulations at a meeting in London today.

Bernie Ecclestone’s proposed shake-up of the qualifying format and FIA president Max Mosley’s plans to reintroduce tyre changing were both given the green light by the Formula 1 Commission.

The unpopular single-lap qualifying system will be scrapped next year in favour of a three-part session, with two 15-minute ‘knockout’ segments whittling the field down to a group of 10 drivers, who will then fight for pole in a 20-minute open session.

Although the new system is relatively complicated and could potentially confuse casual fans, it is hoped that it will recreate the excitement of pre-2003 qualifying sessions whilst ensuring continuous track action.

Mosley also won approval in principle for the radical new aerodynamic concept conceived by the FIA and its technology partner AMD, which involves the replacement of a conventional rear wing by a much smaller wing behind each rear tyre in an attempt to clean up the airflow and promote overtaking.

The ‘centreline downwash generating’ (CDG) wing was to have formed part of the 2008 technical regulations but Mosley secured the teams’ agreement to introduce it a year earlier, subject to input from the teams’ technical directors.

Flibster · 25 Oct 2005 at 09:25

I know this one isn't really F1 related - but...

FRENTZEN KNOCKED OUT IN DTM CRASH

Former Formula 1 star Heinz-Harald Frentzen is recovering from concussion in a German hospital after crashing out of Sunday’s DTM (German touring car) race at Hockenheim.

Frentzen, 38, was briefly knocked unconscious after an apparent mechanical failure caused his Opel Vectra to slam into the barriers at the Sud Kurve.

Brain scans revealed no injuries, but Frentzen complained of a severe headache and will stay in hospital under observation for the next couple of days before flying back to his home in Monte Carlo.

The German is one of a number of F1 refugees who race in the DTM championship, others including Mika Hakkinen, Jean Alesi and Allan McNish.

Meanwhile Britain’s Gary Paffett clinched the DTM title at the Hockenheim season finale.

Paffett grew up racing karts with Jenson Button, Anthony Davidson and Dan Wheldon and was briefly linked with a Sauber F1 drive last year before the team signed Jacques Villeneuve.

Hope there's no after effects. Frentzen's a nice guy.

Flibster · 25 Oct 2005 at 09:40

Cut the wings down to single elements with fixed dimensions.

No winglet's, flipups, bargeboards etc...lets back to clean cars *A-la McLaren Mp4/4*

Allow any 3.0 engine you want *V6, V8, V10, V12, V16, H16* - but with valve springs rather than pneumatically activated - will cut the power and RPM down dramatically

Bring back ground effect - this is minamally affected by the wash created by following cars closely.

Slick tyres - but keep the same width - the grip will reman roughly the same

Driver aids - none. No power steering, no traction control, no full auto or semi auto gearboxes, no radio's

Allow the minimum weight of the cars to go down to 550kg.

Simon/~Flibster

Baz · 25 Oct 2005 at 10:12

I am still surprised they do not use Methanol rather than petrol for fuel, as its safer for refuelings, how many times do you see a fire in the pits.. at least Methanol can be put out with water...

I like the idea of the split wings, but they need to put them back on slicks with one manufacturer,

get rid of ALL driver aids, no TCS, no ABS no power steering no auto flappable gearbox, use a sequential stick shift like Indy car and Cart.

limit the budget for each team to the same amount. this would keep all the teams in the same league.

get rid of the pompous white haired dwarf