2005 German Grand Prix

Richard T · 24 Jul 2005 at 21:19

Flibster said:
Pee break..

awww Simon! too much info :rolleyes:

Flibster · 24 Jul 2005 at 21:20

I didn't even realise it was the last lap - Saw someone going slowly and the chequered flag waving...

Very dull end..

Simon/~Flibster

dannyjo22 · 24 Jul 2005 at 21:30

Flibster said:
Villeneuve hits Monteiro...and wipes them both out..

Villeneuve's lost his nose...Monteiro's car could well be damaged at the rear.

Retire now Villeneuve - from the race and from Sauber...

Rubbish that wasnt even his fault, he was alongside and the jordan moved over on him, he had to take avoiding action.

dannyjo22 · 24 Jul 2005 at 21:32

Flibster said:
Doornbos hit by Villeneuve - all Villeneuves fault by the looks of it.

Raikkonen foes a 1:15.915 on lap 4

M.Schumacher doing 1:17's...

Slander

You never saw the whole incident apparently Doornob broke and moved over on jacques.

Richard T · 24 Jul 2005 at 21:42

dannyjo22 said:
Rubbish that wasnt even his fault, he was alongside and the jordan moved over on him, he had to take avoiding action.

I have to agree with that... It wasn't JV's fault

Flibster · 24 Jul 2005 at 22:53

ashtray_head said:
awww Simon! too much info

Sorry - was getting dull and people would expect a position list on where everyone was...

Be thankfull I didn't take the laptop with me. :eek:

dannyjo22 said:
Rubbish that wasnt even his fault, he was alongside and the jordan moved over on him, he had to take avoiding action.

dannyjo22 said:
Slander

You never saw the whole incident apparently Doornob broke and moved over on jacques.

ashtray_head said:
I have to agree with that... It wasn't JV's fault

Errr...Villeneuve came up from way back expecting the Jordan to keep over - but he took something close to the racing line.

Villenevue was far to far back to try and take that - he would have been better waiting for the next corner.

TBH it was more a 50/50 accident - but Villeneuve has consistantly been outqualified and outraced by his teammate and has even taken him off the track at one occasion...

He no longer deserves to be in F1...

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 00:03

See if anyone recognises this...

http://www.flibster.com/F1/Other Files/F1.wma

Still makes me think of the good old days....

Simon/~Flibster

JRS · 25 Jul 2005 at 01:31

Ah, "The Chain". Reminds me of a time when F1 was exciting, James Allen wasn't in the commentary box to annoy me and I actually bothered to watch every single race in the season.......note to FIA - you want people to get excited about F1, you need a serious re-think of the rule book that goes waaaaaaaaaay beyond your current half-hearted attempts.

The only two things I remember from the GP were Kimi going out and Villeneuve running into a Jordan. The MotoGP race on the other hand was a very exciting event and actually worth watching. Hungary next - and I'm definitely not going to be watching that. It's bad enough watching a race at Hungary during an exciting season of F1.......

[TW]Fox · 25 Jul 2005 at 01:32

Good old Fleetwood Mac. Track 20 on their Very Best Of Album.

VirtualAdept · 25 Jul 2005 at 02:08

[TW]Fox said:
Good old Fleetwood Mac. Track 20 on their Very Best Of Album.

Played everytime my wife touches the stereo... at least its decent motorway music.

Dutch Guy · 25 Jul 2005 at 08:37

I think it's not against the rules to have a tyre that has no grooves at the end of the race because Bridgestone and Michelin have to make the tyre slower when all grooves are gone.

As fot JV's incidents, the first one looked like he was frustrated of driving at the back of the grid and just slammed into Doornbos his rer-end (and even if Doornbos braked early he should just avoid him, brake tests are given all the time by everyone)

The 2nd incident is as much Monteiro's fault as Villeneuve's fault, Villeneuve should have stayed behind the Jordan but Moneiro should have given him more room.

BTW, did Montoya set a record by going from last place to 2nd?

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 09:18

yes....more news...

The reasons why tech chief stayed
(GMM) Adrian Newey postponed a long planned 'sabbatical' and opted to stay at McLaren because the team has a new 'harmonious' technical structure.

That's the belief of Woking based boss Ron Dennis.

Newey, perhaps the most sought after designer/technical director in pitlane, planned to take a long holiday at the end of the year after admitting to F1 burnout.

Instead, he'll chug ahead into 2006.

Dennis told Autosport: "I think it is the environmental change we have achieved ... that has made many people happier."

"Not only is it working but it is delivering on circuit."

Newey, 46, told Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport that he nearly switched to Jaguar in 2001 because he had started to feel 'empty' and 'unmotivated' at the silver camp.

'CEO F1' Martin Whitmarsh, meanwhile, revealed that McLaren tried to reduce some of the F1 'pressure' that had begun to drain the Englishman.

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 09:19

Human error caused Kimi exit - 25 July 2005

Finger trouble left Kimi Räikkönen stranded at the side of Hockenheim's F1 circuit on Sunday.

'Speed TV' revealed that the leading Finn's McLaren broke down not because of Mercedes engine failure or a bust hydraulic system, but a fluid leak triggered by human error.

A pressure relief valve had apparently not been re-fastened properly after a check.

Woking principal Ron Dennis said of the failure, and teammate Juan Pablo Montoya's qualifying shunt: 'A pretty unsatisfactory performance all round.

'The mountain is now a bit ... steeper,' he added, 'but our commitment to the challenge remains undiminished.'

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 09:19

Minardi Urge Hyundai into F1

Team open to Korean bid
(GMM) Paul Stoddart has urged Hyundai to accelerate into F1 with Minardi.

The Australian team owner has heard speculation linking the Korean car manufacturer with Samsung and former BAR boss David Richards' likely interest in mounting a F1 bid.

"I have had no approach from them at all," Australia's Stoddart insisted, "but I would like one.

"That is the kind of way I would like Minardi to go."

The Minardi chief made the plea as Eddie Irvine and vodka mogul Roustam Tariko were linked with his Faenza squad.

Paul said he briefly spoke to Irvine, the former Ferrari and Jaguar driver whose talks to buy Jordan broke down, at Monaco.

"I am aware he is shopping," Stoddart said of the Ulsterman, "but he is one of five people (who are)."

Dutch Guy · 25 Jul 2005 at 10:00

A pressure relief valve had apparently not been re-fastened properly after a check.

Nice going, looks like sabotage

rpstewart · 25 Jul 2005 at 15:15

Finally got my autosport.com login working again

, so here's some of the latest goins on...

Has Jean Todt got a part time job with British Rail? Judging by the latest excuses it's possible.

Todt claims that Ferrari's main struggles at the moment appear to be related to how the grip of their tyres evolves over a race.

And, with a growing suspicion that the form of Bridgestone suffers as rubber is laid down by rivals Michelin, it is something that the team cannot address in testing.

"But sometimes we don't see in private testing what we see during the race, because the temperatures are different, because the rubber on the tarmac is different, because there are so many elements."

What's next Jean? Leaves on the track? Wrong kind of snow?

Williams to go with Cosworth V8s.

Williams are expected to announce a one-year deal with Cosworth for engine supply in 2006, Autosport-Atlas has learned.

The Grove-based team, who will lose engine partner BMW at the end of this season, will race with the Cosworth V8 engines in 2006 but are expected to link up with Toyota in 2007.

Williams and Cosworth would not comment on the deal, however sources close to the two companies have confirmed to Autosport-Atlas the deal has been made.

Furthermore, sources said the Williams chiefs have already told their staff of their plans last week. A public announcement is expected to be made in the next few days, prior to the deadline of July 31st that BMW had given Williams when the German company decided to buy out the Sauber team.

Dutch Guy · 25 Jul 2005 at 15:29

What would you rather have JT say "our performance is down because of the crap Bridgestone tyres"

I think the fact that Schumi has to push the whole race instead of cruising the 2nd part means his tyre wear is higher.

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 17:02

I called the Williams-Cosworth link a couple of races ago...

Damn I'm good.

Anyway...

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=25333 said:
Teams and Manufacturers issue statement
25/07/2005

Nine Formula One teams and five Manufacturers - BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Renault, Honda and Toyota have today (July 25) issued the following statement:

Nine teams and five manufacturers finalise joint proposals for future of Formula One

Agreement on key principles for 2008 Technical, Sporting and Legal framework - in line with recent FIA fan survey

Summary of proposals sent to the FIA - discussion with Governing Body planned shortly

Grand Prix Manufacturers' Association (GPMA) founded – manufacturers and teams continue working together on providing world's best sporting spectacle

Following a meeting on Saturday in Hockenheim between nine teams and five car manufacturers currently participating in Formula One, a summary of joint proposals for the sporting, technical and legal framework of Formula One as of 2008 was sent to the FIA to form the basis for constructive discussion.

The proposals have been prepared in a range of meetings since January by Technical, Commercial and Legal Executives from the nine teams BAR, Jordan, McLaren, Minardi, Red Bull, Renault, Sauber, Toyota and Williams, and from the five manufacturers BMW; DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Renault and Toyota have been working closely together.

Their thoughts and actions were driven by a number of key principles. First and foremost, to maintain and build upon Formula One's position as the number one annual sports series in the world, it should attract, excite and provide the best possible sporting spectacle and good value on a worldwide basis. Moreover, Formula One must consolidate its position at the pinnacle of motorsport, by presenting the most exciting, technologically advanced and global motorsport series. Also, a long term plan for the prosperity of the sport and its key constituents should be put in place, so that those parties which contribute greatly to the sport's success have a stable and economically viable future. The participation of independent teams will be supported and encouraged, particularly by enabling small teams to secure a stable source of engine supply.

Where possible, costs should be significantly reduced, providing that the sporting spectacle and competition is not compromised. The vision is for a fair and transparent sport with well–funded and highly competitive teams on every row of the grid, with the best drivers competing on the most exciting race tracks around the world.

Formula One has to be at the forefront of technology and continue to showcase technical innovations in line with those in the auto industry. At the same time the introduction of potentially expensive innovations should not jeopardise the commercial and sporting viability of independent teams. Cost saving is a fundamental objective for the teams and manufacturers, as it is important that new technologies can be introduced at the lowest possible price.

Considering the fact that their alliance represents 90% of the current grid, and views from key stakeholders such as circuits, broadcasters, sponsors and fans are included, the teams and manufacturers are confident that the FIA will consider their proposals carefully.

The teams and manufacturers look forward to entering into a constructive dialogue with the FIA shortly, and have therefore requested that representatives from their group will meet with the FIA President shortly.

First announced on 9 May 2005 in Barcelona, the new manufacturers' association, formally named Grand Prix Manufacturers' Association (GPMA), has now been formed by BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Renault and Toyota. The manufacturers' interests will be represented solely through this new entity, which will provide the manufacturers with an opportunity to shape the future of the sport and to provide exciting racing for its fans. Like the teams, the manufacturers hope to achieve the group's objectives within the sport.

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 17:03

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=25334 said:
GPMA keen to start talking
25/07/2005

As Pitpass has previously reported, the teams and manufacturers involved in coming up with an alternative vision for Formula One post-2007, are not looking to form a breakaway series, but merely want to improve the current version, which (hopefully) means better entertainment for the fans, more stability, greater transparency and a fairer share of the revenue for those that provide the show.

Today's statement put little more meat on the bones, but did at least prove that the nine teams and five manufacturers are still working together on their vision.

The FIA was sent a summary of the joint proposals for the sporting, technical and legal framework earlier today and the, newly named, Grand Prix Manufacturers' Association (GPMA) awaits the response.

At present, the GPMA is giving little away, but Pitpass understands that a meeting will be held in the very near future, in order that teams may go into the forthcoming summer break knowing that progress has been made.

What is significant is that despite signing up with Bernie Ecclestone for the new Concorde Agreement, which will run from 2008 to 2012, both Red Bull and Jordan continue to be involved in the GPMA's proposals.

A spokesman was keen to reiterate to Pitpass that the aim of the GPMA is to ensure the future of Grand Prix racing. Therefore it is hoped that a meeting might be arranged in the coming days whereby the parties involved can establish some "common ground" and also establish areas of "possible conflict".

Although it is almost impossible to get anyone from the GPMA to go 'on record', Pitpass has been told it is felt that many of the proposals recently put forward by FIA President, Max Mosley, would work.

However, there is a fear within the GPMA of Formula One being 'dumbed down', with one source telling Pitpass: "You cannot stop progress". The same source said that it is felt that F1 would be better "without traction control" and that the FIA's proposal to reduce aerodynamic downforce to 10% of the current level, is "going too far".

The GPMA is clearly concerned at the power the FIA wields, in some circumstances it appears that the governing body acts as investigator, judge, jury and executioner. This would come under the GPMA's call for greater transparency.

Having spent so much time and effort coming up with its proposals, its clear that the GPMA now wants to get down to some serious talking... as soon as possible.

dannyjo22 · 25 Jul 2005 at 18:17

Flibster said:
Errr...Villeneuve came up from way back expecting the Jordan to keep over - but he took something close to the racing line.

Villenevue was far to far back to try and take that - he would have been better waiting for the next corner.

TBH it was more a 50/50 accident - but Villeneuve has consistantly been outqualified and outraced by his teammate and has even taken him off the track at one occasion...

He no longer deserves to be in F1...

Simon/~Flibster

Actually rewatch it JV is exactly alongside the jordan, on the outside. The jordan then moves over on him, jv takes avoiding action by slamming the brakes on and moving onto the grass. He had to do that to stop the cars going side to side. He was fully alongside he jordan.

No one saw enough of the first incident to be able to comment, but people still seem to think they know what happened. JV says Doornob, broke and moved over into him.