2005 San Marino Grand Prix

Flibster · 24 Apr 2005 at 21:03

Yeah - Ralf has been given a 25 second penalty.

The San Marino Race Director has referred Toyota’s Ralf Schumacher to the stewards for an incident that occurred with Nick Heidfeld's Williams following his second pit stop.

Having reviewed the evidence, the stewards considered that it was an unsafe manoeuvre and applied a 25-second penalty to the German, who finished the race in eighth place. However, Toyota are appealing the decision.

"In view of the extremely vague description of the regulation and a number of similar incidents which have gone unpunished, Toyota has decided to appeal the decision of the stewards in order to clarify this issue for the future," explained team principal Tsutomu Tomita.

If Toyota’s appeal fails, Schumacher will drop out of the points in the Imola placings and Heidfeld will inherit a point by moving up to eighth place.

Flibster · 24 Apr 2005 at 23:04

Update about Button's BAR...

For several hours after today's Grand Prix, it appeared that Jenson Button might lose his third place, as stewards investigated the Englishman's car.

However, almost six hours after the race had finished, the stewards issued a statement giving the BAR 007 the all-clear.

"Immediately following the end of the race the car was weighed in the configuration it had finished and was above the minimum weight limit," read the statement.

"It was subsequently drained of fuel and then re-weighed and found to be underweight."

"The stewards after hearing the explanation of the competitor's representatives and studying all the available documentation decided that the matter requires no further action."

So they weighed it in race trim and it was abonve the minimum weight..
They then drained the fuel from it and it was below the minimum weight.
Where's the problem?
As long as it finished about the magic 600kg *or is it 605kg now??* with the driver...it's legal.

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 24 Apr 2005 at 23:41

And apart from Button *who made a bit of a balls up* - who did M.Schumacher overtake on the track then? Errrr....no-one. It was all in the pitstops. Hell - he couldn't even get pas his brother in a MUCH slower car.

He drove a fast car quickly in clear air - Alonso drove a slower, mis-handling car fast and well enough to keep him behind for 11 laps.

He did it cleverly actually - braking to a slower speed than he would have normally then using the Renaults fantastic traction to pull away a couple of car lengths.

Alonso showed that he has the ability to soak up pressure *for the second race in a row* and could think about how best to keep his opponent behind him with worse equipment.

Going from the first few laps of the race Kimi was in for a shout of Driver of the day - shame the car died.

Villeneuve was someone else I considered - but we didn't really get to see what Massa could do - he was too busy knocking bits of Coulthards car off.

Looking at the full lap chart - Villeneuve overtook more in that race than he did in several years of of being in the B.A.R.'s

Wurz was another candidate - but he didn't really stand out. He was dependable rather than extrordinary. *Unlike de la Rosa who did get DOTD as he was sheer entertainment*

Flibster · 25 Apr 2005 at 10:27

Joe T said:
Anyone? Thanks

I'm sure I posted this earlier...

Phone Silverstone. Unless it's a closed session they usually tell you who's booked in.

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 25 Apr 2005 at 10:31

Ammended Race Results - May still change due to Toyota appeal.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Laps	Time		Grid	Points[/b]
1	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			62	1:27:41.921	2	10 
2	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			62	+0.2 secs	13	8 
3	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		62	+10.4 secs	3	6 
4	10	Alexander Wurz		McLaren-Mercedes	62	+27.5 secs	7	5 
5	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		62	+34.7 secs	6	4 
6	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		62	+64.4 secs	11	3 
7	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			62	+70.2 secs	5	2 
8	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		62	+71.2 secs	8	1 
9	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		62	+83.2 secs	4   
10	15	Vitantonio Liuzzi	Red Bull Racing		62	+83.7 secs	15   
11	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			62	+95.8 secs	10  
12	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		61	+1 Lap		18	 
13	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		61	+1 Lap		14	 
14	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		61	+1 Lap		16	 
15	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		60	+2 Laps		17	 
Ret	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	20	Hydraulics	20	 
Ret	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			18	Electrical	9	 
Ret	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	9	Driveshaft	1	 
Ret	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	8	Clutch		19	 
Ret	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			5	Accident	12

Current Champiochip Standings

2005 Drivers Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal.

Code:

[b]Pos	Driver			Nationality	Team			Points[/b]
1 	Fernando Alonso 	Spanish 	Renault 		36
2	Jarno Trulli		Italian		Toyota			18
=4	Giancarlo Fisichella 	Italian		Renault 		10 
=4	Michael Schumacher	German		Ferrari			10
=6	Ralf Schumacher		German		Toyota			9
=6	David Coulthard 	British 	Red Bull Racing 	9
=8 	Rubens Barrichello 	Brazilian 	Ferrari 		8 
=8	Juan Pablo Montoya	Colombian	McLaren-Mercedes	8 
=11	Kimi Räikkönen		Finnish		McLaren-Mercedes	7
=11	Mark Webber		Australian	Williams-BMW		7 
=11	Nick Heidfeld		German		Williams-BMW		7
12	Jenson Button		British		B.A.R. Honda		6
13	Alex Wurz		Austrian	McLaren-Mercedes	5
=15	Pedro De la Rosa	Spanish		McLaren-Mercedes	4
=15	Takuma Sato		Japanese	B.A.R. Honda		4
=17	Christian Klien		Austrian	Red Bull Racing		3
=17	Jacques Villeneuve	Canadian	Sauber-Petronas		3
18	Felipe Massa		Brazilian	Sauber-Petronas		2

2005 Constructors Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal.

Code:

[b]Pos	Constructor 		Points[/b]
1	Renault			46
2	Toyota			27
3	McLaren-Mercedes	24
4	Ferrari			18
5	Williams-BMW		14
6	Red Bull Racing		12
7	B.A.R. Honda		10
8	Sauber-Petronas		5

Flibster · 25 Apr 2005 at 10:48

Here we go...the lap chart.

Flibster · 25 Apr 2005 at 17:55

Oh ****...it's getting better.

The FIA are sticking their noses in again...

Button could lose Imola points

Formula One racing’s governing body, the FIA, has announced it is to appeal against the decision of San Marino Grand Prix stewards concerning the weight of Jenson Button’s BAR car.

Following Sunday’s event, in which Button finished third, his car was found to be underweight after being drained of fuel. However, BAR then supplied an explanation, satisfying the stewards that the car was legal throughout the race.

However, the FIA is obviously not happy with the stewards’ verdict and the matter is now provisionally scheduled to go before the International Court of Appeal in Paris on May 4.

Expressing their surprise at the FIA move, BAR’s CEO Nick Fry commented: "BAR Honda will provide the same rigorous data presented to the stewards last night and is confident that it can prove once again that the car was fully compliant with the FIA Technical Regulations throughout the San Marino Grand Prix."

Should the FIA’s appeal prove successful, Button could be disqualified from the Imola results, which would elevate McLaren’s Alexander Wurz to third place and bring Williams’ Mark Webber up into the points in eighth.

Flibster · 26 Apr 2005 at 14:31

Emlyn_Dewar said:
[cough]Adelaide '94[/cough]

European GP 1997?

But then again - he was disqualified form the 1997 season after the FIA enquiry for that one.

And we can go back to before F1 as well.

It's something he's done regularly in various championships.

Also when he's under pressure he usually has terrible races. Japan 2003 for example. Was there anyone he didn't collide with?

Anyway...B.A.R. seem confident that they can persuade the FIA that their car was overweight for the whole season.

Should be easy to do anyway. The FIA know how heavy it was at the end of Qualifying 2 - BAR know how much fuel they put in - this is also confirmed with the FIA during the race. They know the weight of the fuel that was being used - as does the FIA.

Don't see the problem really.

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 27 Apr 2005 at 19:53

Second set of Ammended Race Results - May still change due to Toyota appeal and BAR Investigaton.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Laps	Time		Grid	Points[/b]
1	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			62	1:27:41.921	2	10 
2	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			62	+0.2 secs	13	8 
3	10	Alexander Wurz		McLaren-Mercedes	62	+27.5 secs	7	6 
4	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		62	+34.7 secs	6	5 
5	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		62	+64.4 secs	11	4 
6	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			62	+70.2 secs	5	3 
7	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		62	+71.2 secs	8	2 
8	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		62	+83.2 secs	4	1
9	15	Vitantonio Liuzzi	Red Bull Racing		62	+83.7 secs	15   
10	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			62	+95.8 secs	10  
11	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		61	+1 Lap		18	 
12	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		61	+1 Lap		14	 
13	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		61	+1 Lap		16	 
14	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		60	+2 Laps		17	 
Ret	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	20	Hydraulics	20	 
Ret	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			18	Electrical	9	 
Ret	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	9	Driveshaft	1	 
Ret	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	8	Clutch		19	 
Ret	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			5	Accident	12	
Excl	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		62	+10.4 secs	3		Car underweight

Current Champiochip Standings

2005 Drivers Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal and BAR Investigaton.

Code:

[b]Pos	Driver			Nationality	Team			Points[/b]
1 	Fernando Alonso 	Spanish 	Renault 		36
2	Jarno Trulli		Italian		Toyota			18
=4	Giancarlo Fisichella 	Italian		Renault 		10 
=4	Michael Schumacher	German		Ferrari			10
=6	Ralf Schumacher		German		Toyota			9
=6	David Coulthard 	British 	Red Bull Racing 	9
=9 	Rubens Barrichello 	Brazilian 	Ferrari 		8
=9	Juan Pablo Montoya	Colombian	McLaren-Mercedes	8 
=9	Mark Webber		Australian	Williams-BMW		8
=11	Kimi Räikkönen		Finnish		McLaren-Mercedes	7
=11	Nick Heidfeld		German		Williams-BMW		7
12	Alex Wurz		Austrian	McLaren-Mercedes	5
=14	Pedro De la Rosa	Spanish		McLaren-Mercedes	4
=14	Takuma Sato		Japanese	B.A.R. Honda		4
=16	Christian Klien		Austrian	Red Bull Racing		3
=16	Jacques Villeneuve	Canadian	Sauber-Petronas		3
17	Felipe Massa		Brazilian	Sauber-Petronas		2

2005 Constructors Championship - May still change due to Toyota appeal and BAR Investigaton.

Code:

[b]Pos	Constructor 		Points[/b]
1	Renault			46
2	Toyota			27
3	McLaren-Mercedes	24
4	Ferrari			18
5	Williams-BMW		15
6	Red Bull Racing		12
=8	B.A.R. Honda		5
=8	Sauber-Petronas		5

Flibster · 28 Apr 2005 at 20:26

Type_R said:
LOL, we shall wait and see. I don't think those renaults will be anywhere near the ferraris at Spain.

I am just sitting here wondering how old you are and how much insight you have in the sport.

Notice you said that about him rather than me when we both said exactly the same thing...

Oh...Testing time for the Minardi's..or rather it will be if their drivers stop driving into each other and damaging the cars.. *guess what happened on Tuesday...*

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 28 Apr 2005 at 22:55

Type_R said:
Thats because at least he has an excuse for thinking what he does, knowing your background it seems you are already a lost cause

Strange that when DC gets a taste of his own medicine (thinking back to Spa many a year ago) he reacts the same way the monster arrogant German would!

That the time when it was hissing it down and DC was off the racing line and MS drove over the back of him at something like 180mph?

Looking forward to the reception that the Spanish are going to give Alonso - could be interesting.

I loved the bit of that story where DC noticed his parents in the back. Kodak moment I think.

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 29 Apr 2005 at 00:10

Arc said:
You have a somewhat biased memory when it comes to a certain 7 times world champion .

DC, a lap or two down, out on the track with a car that shouldnt be out there (had already been in the pits trying to get it sorted) and he decides to brake test Schumacher on a wet straight at a three figure speed, not the best thing to do.

I love the way that people always drag up the "7 times would champion" argument..so what? That makes him right all the while?

At that point - any car that could be driven was in the hunt for points - people were going off the track left right and centre *remember Brazil 2003?*

I also seem to remember that at that point I was working with Ferrari.

I've worked with 7 different F1 teams...Not saying which were better to be with than others, but some of the teams were very different to how they are portrayed.

You couldn't see sod all out on track. That was a racing incident. DC was off the racing line as his car was effctively knackered. It's was a very sick car - no where near the speed it should have been. The biggest problem was his collision with Wurz *someone who really deserves a race drive* after DC spun and pretty much started that 14 car pile up...

Schumacher assumed that he would be on the racing line - which he wasn't. He assumed that he would be let through on the next straight..

DC assumed that Schumacher would stick to the racing line - he didn't.

Sadly the only person who seemed to be angry that it happend was Schumacher - he was obsessed that DC had tried to kill him. Most of the team just accepted it.

Some events have a definate bad guy - most are just racing incidents though.

Although the pile up at the beginning of that race was amazing..teams were grabbing anything they could. Didn't matter if it was from their car or not.

Being honest I don't know why I bother to carry this on anymore. The team I love is no longer in F1, all the drivers I support are no longer in F1 either *couple of them are no longer alive*

Someone else can do the next one of these..

Flibster · 29 Apr 2005 at 00:34

Team: Lotus - Colin Chapman was possible the best designer ever in F1. What would the cars be like now if he was still alive.

Drivers: Senna, Prost *superb teammates...

*, Herbert, Berger.

None of the driver combinations to day live up to the Senna/Prost combo. Closest really is the potential between Raikkonen and Montoya.
Personally - none of the drivers today live up to Senna's ability.

Flibster · 29 Apr 2005 at 22:48

Oh...Toyota have dropped their protest about their punishment. So Ralf is 11th now..

May be 10th after the FIA protest...

Simon/~Flibster