2005 United States Grand Prix

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Hello. :D

8 pages of this to read through...Oh christ...

However I will put my opinions up tomorrow...once I've read the 600 odd posts. :eek:

Simon/~Flibster
 
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i was close to tears.

Its the fact that the FIA was giving SOOOOO many options by the teams, and they flatly said NO to all of them thats beyond a joke.

now they going to sue the cars for NOT running there probably fatal-accident prone cars??? yet the FIA bang on constantly about safety? Absolutely terrible. Yet watching the BTCC at brands a few weeks ago, and then on tv just before race, it was great show.... a great sport...
 
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Fire 1 said:
How come Rossi winning in 5 out 6 races MotoGP this year and the title for the past few years is exciting but when in F1 it is Ferrari and Shumacher winning it is boring?

Rossi dominating the series and it is good. Shumacher dominating the series and it is boring. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Racing isnt just about who wins, but about the race itself.

With F1, we get a high speed progression round the track, and if were lucky, we get the occasional overtaking manouvre. But all too often, races are determined by choice of strategy, how many stops and even whether the pit crew get the fuel filler off quickly enough. That, to my mind, is not racing.

But with MotoGP, we often have the leaders changing numerous times during the race, and sometimes even in the last corner. Even when Rossi wins, it isn't by any means always a foregone conclusion that he's going to. And there's plenty of other racing going on further down the field with places changing all the time.

With MotoGP, I often find myself sitting on the edge of the seat, glued to the TV. With F1 I have been known, quite literally, to doze off. There's nothing hypocritical about that. One gets my adrenalin going, and the other holds about as much interest as watching paint dry.
 
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Harley said:
Racing isnt just about who wins, but about the race itself.

With F1, we get a high speed progression round the track, and if were lucky, we get the occasional overtaking manouvre. But all too often, races are determined by choice of strategy, how many stops and even whether the pit crew get the fuel filler off quickly enough. That, to my mind, is not racing.

But with MotoGP, we often have the leaders changing numerous times during the race, and sometimes even in the last corner. Even when Rossi wins, it isn't by any means always a foregone conclusion that he's going to. And there's plenty of other racing going on further down the field with places changing all the time.

With MotoGP, I often find myself sitting on the edge of the seat, glued to the TV. With F1 I have been known, quite literally, to doze off. There's nothing hypocritical about that. One gets my adrenalin going, and the other holds about as much interest as watching paint dry.
have you watched any racing this year? this season has been great for overtaking and battles.
 
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Right - my view on this 'race'

People in the wrong - FIA
People who acted innapropriately - Everyone else

First off...let me quote Max Mosely from the European Grand Prix..
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33025 said:
...snip...

But the FIA has suggested that not only is it the team's responsibility to ensure its car is safe to race, but that a car may be black-flagged if the stewards deemed its technical integrity to be in doubt.

"It should not be forgotten that a mechanical failure at high speed may involve a degree of risk to the spectating public," said Mosley in an open letter to the teams.

"If you are in any doubt about your car, you should always call it in.

"If you are still in doubt after checking the car in the pits, you should retire it from the race."

...snip

So the teams/michelin did what he asked then. They were unsure about the safety of the cars and as such retiresd them.

The problem with the tyres was a manafacturing defect that was undetectable once the tyre was complete without cutting the tyres apart as far as I could gather. That is impractical.

There was a safer set of tyres available - however the main carcass of the tyre was the same as the one that was failing - and as such there was no guarantees that the safer tyre would not fail either.

The only solution was to add the chicane in really.

Flying in another set of tyres would not be allowed as they would be running an uninspected and unauthorised set of tyres - something which is not allowed as the teams have to decide which tyres to run on the saturday morning.

Having the Michelin runner go through turn 13 at around 50-100mph slower than the Bridgestone runners - really safe that. :rolleyes: Sorry - that is one of the most stupid suggestions that I've EVER heard fromt he FIA

Or we had the chicaine...

Now - they didn't want to disadvantage bridgestone - Fair enough.
Let them change their tyres if they want as well - as for the Chicaine - would be the same for everyone - no one would know what it would be like.

Someone needs to take charge of F1 - Bernie seems to no longer be able to order teams around and force an agreement out of them.

I'd suggest someone like say - Dave Richards - he knows what is sensible and what isn't.

This issue was known about for 48 HOURS!!

If no agreement fromt he teams could have been reached the FIA should have taken a look at the most sensible options and then force the teams to agree.

As for the vote/agreement - all the teams were asked - some took no notice.

There were 3 Michelin teams running the harder tyres - guess which??

I sincerely doubt that F1 will be in the USA next year - could this be one of the longer nails into the F1 coffin? Who knows for now.

Oh - and the teams being called infront of the FIA..It's "lets play hunt the scapegoat!!!"

It was certainly a 'dammed of you do - dammed if you don't' situation.

Oh and Jordan and Monteiro celebrating - Please leave F1 now and don't come back.

As for the people who have decided to pay this thread a visit and then start saying that they haven't watched F1 for years...Why did you come in this thread then??
 
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Harley said:
Racing isnt just about who wins, but about the race itself.
Excactly, in previous years I always had a favorite team, now I don't really care that much who wins (well, as long as it isn't the arrogant German) I just want to see an interesting race and see the best/fastest driver win (note driver, NOT car)

That's why I can't wait to see the driver aids go and one tyre manufacturer so the focus is more on the drivers right foot.

One of the reasons overtaking is so difficult in F1 is the fact that if they go 1 meter of the racing line the car understeers off the track when braking, perhaps that is becasue the tyres are just too sticky and if they go "over the edge" a little they immidiately spin out or overshoot the corner by several meters.

I'm not too sure about the chicane thing as that would mean that the setup of the cars had to be changed drastically as it would mean that there was no long straight so that means more downforce and closer gear ratios and it would be a disadvantage to the Bridgestone runners as they also had to figure out new settings and perhaps strategies.

But I also think that there was no real solution possible without any disadvantage :(
 
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Dutch Guy said:
I'm not too sure about the chicane thing as that would mean that the setup of the cars had to be changed drastically as it would mean that there was no long straight so that means more downforce and closer gear ratios and it would be a disadvantage to the Bridgestone runners as they also had to figure out new settings and perhaps strategies.

...and the Michelin teams were prepared for a chicaine on the track and had the strategies all sorted without knowing what it would have looked like?

Everyone would have been galloping up diarrhoea drive without a saddle.

No one would have known what it would have done with the current setups - however this could have been done on Friday night and all ready to test on Saturday morning.

Hell - let Bridgestone change their tyres as well - all fair then.

Simon/~Flibster
 
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gord said:
Rossi is an admirable opponent....he still has some questionable manouvers [such as this year with Sete Gibernau on that final corner] but it definitely wasnt like Schumacher's i'll take you off approach, as with motorbikes, its do or die, dive down the inside

the best thing was he went to a lower performance team and has brought them up which says a lot about a rider

It was like Schumacher move as you say as he did take Sete off.

ashtray_head said:
I'd like to see shuey try that!!!!

So did Schumacher when he left Benaton for Ferrari.


BMW press conference later this morning about a their future in F1 and a possible deal with Sauber.
 
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Flibster said:
...and the Michelin teams were prepared for a chicaine on the track and had the strategies all sorted without knowing what it would have looked like?

Everyone would have been galloping up diarrhoea drive without a saddle.

No one would have known what it would have done with the current setups - however this could have been done on Friday night and all ready to test on Saturday morning.

Hell - let Bridgestone change their tyres as well - all fair then.

Simon/~Flibster
It would be a disadvantage to the Bridgestone teams and I get the idea they didn't want to do that.
For Ferrari the disadvantage would be greatest as they have one of the highest top speeds so putting in a chicane would stop that.

IMO Michelin should have a backup tyre ready to go at the factory and they should have been allowed to supply those tyres to the temas, but I don't know if they had and were refused to do this by the FIA or if they had no tyres that could be used at all.

If the tyres were not safe they should make tyres (or have tyres in stock) that are safe in any condition or any track, putting in a chicane doesn't solve the problem.
 
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Bridgestone unfair advantage?

During a three-day IRL test session at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in April, a problem was encountered with the new track surface.

As a result of wear problems, tyre supplier, Firestone, withdrew its teams from the test after just two hours, in order that it could fully investigate the problem.

Subsequently, Firestone and its teams returned to the IMS, and the test was successful, problem solved.

It's worth noting that Firestone is sister company to Bridgestone, which did not encounter any problems at the IMS.

We also hear that Bridgestone had another tyre - good for another 0.2s a lap at the IMS - but this wasn't taken to the USA due to "potential durability issues".
 
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SC04 said:
We also hear that Bridgestone had another tyre - good for another 0.2s a lap at the IMS - but this wasn't taken to the USA due to "potential durability issues".
All that tells me is that Bridgestone did their homework and Michelin did not, Michelin focused too much on being faster than Bridgestone that they didn't think about the fact the tyres were not hard enough, to me this is just stupid, they just made two compounds that wer both unsafe instead of doing the safe thing and make the hardest of the two a bit harder.
 
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