2007 Japanese GP - Race 15/17

[Slam62]

Ok Alonso actually believes in his ability so much that the reason he is not leading the championship is McLaren are favouring Hamilton (in his mind)

If he doesn't believe that then his whole world crumbles. If he moves to another team and loses, it will be the car/teams fault so alls ok with his ego

 

[dalin80]

Hopefully, need him back to Renault as soon as possible!

exactly one year and one day ago alonso was criticising renault accusing the team of trying to sabotage his chances....


odd that.

 

[Type_R]

exactly one year and one day ago alonso was criticising renault accusing the team of trying to sabotage his chances....


odd that.

Well said that man.... never thought such a cry baby would make an F1 champion. Just goes to show that F1 is not what it used to be, the lack of risk has opened the floodgates for mere boys whereas this sport used to be for real men

 

[ShakenNstirred]

Alonso`s a cry baby, he should just get on with racing and stop worrying a about who`s #1 and #2 in the team, Ron Denis would have said at the Beginning, that they would have equal machines, its just Alonso never thought Hamilton would be so good.

as for the Webber and Vettel crash, they should have be further apart and staggered , not line astern, as they weren't racing at the time so no need to be on the same line

 

[sunama]

I can't wait for next year with the abolishment of traction control, that'll sort the men from the boys. I can see some people really struggling to start with and a lot more mistakes by everyone.

Erm, I think in the mid 90s, traction control was removed. And I think they went with fully manual gearboxes. This made no difference to the grid. The drivers who were quickest before the changes were still the quickest after the changes. For these reasons, I dont believe there is any need to get excited about the removal of TC.

 

[sunama]

Well said that man.... never thought such a cry baby would make an F1 champion. Just goes to show that F1 is not what it used to be, ...

You mean in the late 80s and early 90s, when Senna would crash into Prost to stop him winning the title and then come on tv and claim that he was hard done by and forced to start on the dirty side of the track? Or when Prost would return the favour a year later? Or when Mansell and Prost raced for Ferrari and Mansell complained of Prost playing games by switching cars with him, to thwart Mansell?

Sorry dude, but F1 has always been like this. I do agree that Alonso is more paranoid than a lot of previous/current drivers, but he isnt too dissimilar to MS, Senna, Prost or Mansell. I can also see Hamilton getting heavily involved (as he becomes more experienced) in using the media to have a moan. In fact, he's doing it in his first year - complaining about Alonso and how he would rather not race with Alonso in the same team.

 

[dannyjo22]

Erm, I think in the mid 90s, traction control was removed. And I think they went with fully manual gearboxes. This made no difference to the grid. The drivers who were quickest before the changes were still the quickest after the changes. For these reasons, I dont believe there is any need to get excited about the removal of TC.

The difference being those top drivers previously raced for a good few years in F1 without TC.

I dont even think Kimi has raced in f1 without it. Its highly debatable for all the years MS raced in f1 that he raced more than the odd year without it.

Whether running traction control legally or not or a crude form of TC via engine lapping.

Its highly unlikely its going to be removed anyway. Lots of the teams are lobbying behind the scenes to keep it in the interests of safety.

 

[sunama]

The difference being those top drivers previously raced for a good few years in F1 without TC.

I dont even think Kimi has raced in f1 without it. Its highly debatable for all the years MS raced in f1 that he raced more than the odd year without it.

Whether running traction control legally or not or a crude form of TC via engine lapping.

Its highly unlikely its going to be removed anyway. Lots of the teams are lobbying behind the scenes to keep it in the interests of safety.

Remember, the younger drivers (in the mid 90s) generally came from other motor racing back grounds which never used traction control. So racing without traction control will make virtually no difference. Raikonnen is intelligent enough to re-learn driving without TC (he wouldve raced without TC in the junior series).

The odd year that MS raced without TC - he still won a bucket load and remained the man to beat. It made no difference to the field. In fact, IIRC, he dominated even more when they took out TC! I think it was 1994 and 1995 that TC was banned. I cant be sure though, so someone else will have to look this up.

 

[Slam62]

yes but they unbanned it because MS was using it anyway

 

[Type_R]

yes but they unbanned it because MS was using it anyway

or because they realised that other tactic to stop him from winning everything hadn't worked...again!

 

[Sagalout]

Well. The fact of the matter is that Hamilton is beating Alonso, fair and square. Alonso is arguably the best driver currently in F1. Remember, Alonso beat the might of Michael Schumacher and Ferrari for 2 consecutive seasons. Were it not for Hamilton, Alonso would be leading the title race and everything would be in order.

Hamilton is a fast driver (as he proved in the wet). He is a fast learner (as he has proved in all tracks he has raced on this year). What he needs is another couple of seaons' experience and we should be looking at the most complete driver the world has ever seen (yes even more so than the great, Michael Schumacher). His only enemy is mortality (ie. lets hope he doesnt die or get seriously injured) and temptations outside of F1 (women, money, alcohol, drugs, etc). Michael Schumacher got married when he was leading the title race in 1994. And before winning the title, he got married. This kept him out of trouble and out of short term relationships. Hamilton would be wise to follow suit.

The problem in this country is that we dont seem to like winners. If Hamilton finished in 3rd place this year, considering he is a rookie, the Brits would love him. But because he is a winner and is quite ruthless as a consequence, the Brits (if this board is anything to go by) are going luke-warm on him.

With regards to him not overtaking on the track, but in the pits (a la MS): given that this is the most efficient method of overtaking, only an idiot would try and overtake on the track, when he could easily just do it in the pits. Its what separates a gung-ho racer who becomes an also-ran and a winner.

Good post. I cant understand why the British dont get behind their sports stars that can actually win, yet love a 'good tryer' such as Henman.

There was a good interview with Stirling Moss on Sky earlier. He said that Hamilton will be better driver, and has more talent than Schumacher - praise indeed - and who can argue with the credentials of the man giving it? Still wont stop the internet geeks from their hate filled posts, but I know whose opinion I respect more.

What I like about Hamilton is his will to win and ability to cope with pressure and not bottle it like our 'stars' usually do. I'm hoping for a motorsport double this weekend with Hamilton and Toseland taking their World Championships. Its just a bit unfortunate for James that he'll only get a paragraph of text 3 pages in on mondays papers.

 

[knip]

Good post. I cant understand why the British dont get behind their sports stars that can actually win, yet love a 'good tryer' such as Henman.

Well I love Lewis Hamilton and I want his babies!!!

 

[sunama]

or because they realised that other tactic to stop him from winning everything hadn't worked...again!

Lol I remember in the mid 90s. They tried everything to stop him from winning titles. For those who didnt follow F1 in the mid-90s:

They braught in new rules to stop MS - it didnt work.

They banned lots of gizmos to stop MS - it didnt work.

They braught back the gizmos to stop MS - it didnt work.

They even introduced re-fueling, mid race to spice things up - it didnt work.

MS was always a front runner. Even Senna in 94 died, trying to stay ahead of MS who was in 2nd place at the time. The Williams that year was just more of a handful while the Benetton was more nimble and easier to set-up.

In 1994, they even took away a win from him (Spa, I think it was) and deducted 10pts from his total. They then followed that up by banning him for the next 3 races. D.Hill won all 3 races. MS still won the title after all these shenanigans.

MS then moved to Ferrari - an outfit that were averaging about 2 wins a season for the last 5 yrs or so. An outfit that won the championship last in 1979. This was the a very risky move but would prove beyond doubt whether or not he was the real deal.

The rest is history. Statistically he showed he was the best driver the world has ever seen. Opinions are subjective but stats dont lie.

IMO, Hamilton, if guided properly and if he remains focused, will be able to eclipse the work done by MS.

I also believe that right now Alonso is the best driver in F1. If he stays with McLaren next year, he should finish ahead of Hamilton. But the year after that, in equal cars, I think Hamilton will have the edge from there on.

 

[Slam62]

with regard to MS at Ferrari, he did have a bit of help from the engineering part of the dream team, he didn't exactly pick up the usual Ferrari debacle.

But he could drive fast when he wanted to.

 

[NathanE]

Well I love Lewis Hamilton and I want his babies!!!

 

[knip]

A girl can dream cant she.
Are you trying to say you havent noticed hes a teeny bit good looking?
Plus id obviously come back and give you lot the inside stories.
And do my darndest to give Fred a good hard slap too!

 

[Wicksta]

Lol I remember in the mid 90s. They tried everything to stop him from winning titles. For those who didnt follow F1 in the mid-90s:

They braught in new rules to stop MS - it didnt work.

They banned lots of gizmos to stop MS - it didnt work.

They braught back the gizmos to stop MS - it didnt work.

They even introduced re-fueling, mid race to spice things up - it didnt work.

MS was always a front runner. Even Senna in 94 died, trying to stay ahead of MS who was in 2nd place at the time. The Williams that year was just more of a handful while the Benetton was more nimble and easier to set-up.

In 1994, they even took away a win from him (Spa, I think it was) and deducted 10pts from his total. They then followed that up by banning him for the next 3 races. D.Hill won all 3 races. MS still won the title after all these shenanigans.

MS then moved to Ferrari - an outfit that were averaging about 2 wins a season for the last 5 yrs or so. An outfit that won the championship last in 1979. This was the a very risky move but would prove beyond doubt whether or not he was the real deal.

The rest is history. Statistically he showed he was the best driver the world has ever seen. Opinions are subjective but stats dont lie.

IMO, Hamilton, if guided properly and if he remains focused, will be able to eclipse the work done by MS.

I also believe that right now Alonso is the best driver in F1. If he stays with McLaren next year, he should finish ahead of Hamilton. But the year after that, in equal cars, I think Hamilton will have the edge from there on.

U've braught a lot to the conversarshion, tharnks.

 

[sunama]

with regard to MS at Ferrari, he did have a bit of help from the engineering part of the dream team, he didn't exactly pick up the usual Ferrari debacle.

But he could drive fast when he wanted to.

A lot is made of Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne, but I have my reservations about this "dream team" of engineers. Over the years, whoever MS has driven with, he has generally made them look vastly inferior. I think Barrichello moved over once to let MS win and everyone made a huge deal out of it. 95% of the time, MS was beating his own team mates fair and square without any obvious assistance. Of course there are those who have consipiracy theories. At Benetton in particular I remember him routinely lapping his team mates (Lehto, Verstappen, Herbert), and these guys were very highly regarded before they arrived at Bennetton. The problem is, after a few months of being lapped by MS, their stock would tend to go down substantially.

From memory, the only team mate who could remotely keep up with MS was Martin Brundle, though that was before MS had matured as a driver.

I would loved to have seen MS and Alonso in the same team. Even if it were just for 1 season. The fireworks between those 2 would've fantastic!!!

 

[dannyjo22]

The odd year that MS raced without TC - he still won a bucket load and remained the man to beat. It made no difference to the field. In fact, IIRC, he dominated even more when they took out TC! I think it was 1994 and 1995 that TC was banned. I cant be sure though, so someone else will have to look this up.

Its strongly talked about that he had TC in his bennetton years. TC wasnt officially legal til about 2000. They were running it on the ferrari via engine mapping. In the end the FIA gave up trying to police it and made it legal.

I'd say the only years he probably didnt use it was 92 and 93.

But its argued about all the time

 

[dannyjo22]

Lol I remember in the mid 90s. They tried everything to stop him from winning titles. For those who didnt follow F1 in the mid-90s:

They braught in new rules to stop MS - it didnt work.

They banned lots of gizmos to stop MS - it didnt work.

They braught back the gizmos to stop MS - it didnt work.

.

What gizmos did they ban because of MS then bring back??

TC?

They banned all the gizmos in 93 because of the dominance of the williams not MS. What did they ban to stop MS???

Infact the change in regualtions hurt his competitors more than him. Narrow track cars and grooves played into his hands while his nearest driver at the time JV was a throwback to the days of high mechanical grip.