2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18

[Skeeter]

Cutting a Chicane and gaining a place doesnt go un-punished.

Cutting a Chicane, gaining a place, giving the place back, being told that that is fine by the FIA, and then retaking the place - Thats a different story.

Try not to confuse the 2.


Almost running people over after an unsafe pit release in GP2 gets you a penalty, In F1 (same FIA body) it doesnt


Crossing a white line as you locked the brakes when entering the pits gets you a penalty, when it didnt effect anyone and was in a practice session.

Using all the outside of a corner to gain an advantage doesnt get you a penalty.

When will you realise this isnt about the one instance, its about the whole season.

 

[TheStig1]

Cutting a Chicane and gaining a place doesnt go un-punished.

Cutting a Chicane, gaining a place, giving the place back, being told that that is fine by the FIA, and then retaking the place - Thats a different story.

Try not to confuse the 2.

so the rules are not inconstant then he gained an advantage and got punished
every f1 driver on the grid says he did not give back the advantage are they wrong and you are right who shall we believe

 

[TheStig1]

Almost running people over after an unsafe pit release in GP2 gets you a penalty, In F1 (same FIA body) it doesnt

yes i know vettel and alonso in germany was terrible
never got punished even though it made alonso cross the exit line
yet the fia fine ferrari
certainly inconsistent on that issue

ps if you keep up the fia govern a lot of racing all with different rules and regulations gp2 is irrelevant

Using all the outside of a corner to gain an advantage doesnt get you a penalty.

When will you realise this isnt about the one instance, its about the whole season.

you already said it was silly to suggest kimi would get a penalty for poohon have you changed your mind?
what was the penalty for lewis in france for cutting the chicane?
consistent i am sure you will find

 

[gord]

So the next question is, at which point does the advantage gained end? At which point does Hamilton's alleged chicane cutting advantage stop? Is it once he is completely behind the car he has gained the advantage over? Clearly not. So what distance do they put in the rulebook you have to drop back to? Maybe the distance you are behind when entering the corner? That would be difficult, Hamilton was in front, and dropping back to in front would be interesting. Maybe its as long as you dont re-pass before the next corner? Or in this case, on the next corner? So what if your opponent brakes way too early?

 

[JUMPURS]

Using all the outside of a corner to gain an advantage doesnt get you a penalty.

When will you realise this isnt about the one instance, its about the whole season.

So would you want lewis to get an extra 25 second penalty for running wide on that turn infront of Kimi?

 

[JUMPURS]

So the next question is, at which point does the advantage gained end? At which point does Hamilton's alleged chicane cutting advantage stop? Is it once he is completely behind the car he has gained the advantage over? Clearly not. So what distance do they put in the rulebook you have to drop back to? Maybe the distance you are behind when entering the corner? That would be difficult, Hamilton was in front, and dropping back to in front would be interesting. Maybe its as long as you dont re-pass before the next corner? Or in this case, on the next corner? So what if your opponent brakes way too early?

An advantage is surely more than just distance to the back of the car??

 

[JUMPURS]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70526

 

[TheStig1]

well thats it settled then
and also gives the fia their stance for the appeal haha

 

[gord]

An advantage is surely more than just distance to the back of the car??

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70526

Interesting, so "wait for another corner before he could attempt to retake it". So how much is not attempting, if Kimi broke early and Hamilton did all that he could to simply slide up to the side of him would this be deemed an attempt? Braking early on the following corner could prove to be a sly manoeuvre considering your opponent will probably have to react quickly and slam on his brakes early in order to not pass.. who knows, might lock the wheels and slide off the track!

 

[gord]

well thats it settled then
and also gives the fia their stance for the appeal haha

I dont understand what you mean by stance? It is obvious that by simply having to establish such a new clarification that it was not clear before and a penalty for any such unclear situation is harsh. Im a firm believer in the rules and Hamilton has broken them in the past, with punishment. This new situation has spurred the clarification, but to penalise before the clarification just seems like they've gone "you broke the rules that we havnt made yet!".. what response is there to that?!

 

[TheStig1]

best idea would be just to stay on the track really saves any issues
i bet a ferrari chops the chicane this week much to the uproar of this thread haha

 

[JUMPURS]

Interesting, so "wait for another corner before he could attempt to retake it". So how much is not attempting, if Kimi broke early and Hamilton did all that he could to simply slide up to the side of him would this be deemed an attempt? Braking early on the following corner could prove to be a sly manoeuvre considering your opponent will probably have to react quickly and slam on his brakes early in order to not pass.. who knows, might lock the wheels and slide off the track!

Well it is easy, if you pass them on the next bend because of that, give the place back again.

It is quite simple, you don't want to have to do it, don't cut a corner. Everybody has to play by the same rules you know.

 

[JUMPURS]

yes i know vettel and alonso in germany was terrible
never got punished even though it made alonso cross the exit line
yet the fia fine ferrari
certainly inconsistent on that issue

I like you sometimes

 

[gord]

best idea would be just to stay on the track really saves any issues
i bet a ferrari chops the chicane this week much to the uproar of this thread haha

Cant wait, every McLaren out there will be looking for blood.. and if its wet at Monza we will have plenty of people leaving the track.

 

[JUMPURS]

So the next question is, at which point does the advantage gained end? At which point does Hamilton's alleged chicane cutting advantage stop? Is it once he is completely behind the car he has gained the advantage over? Clearly not. So what distance do they put in the rulebook you have to drop back to? Maybe the distance you are behind when entering the corner? That would be difficult, Hamilton was in front, and dropping back to in front would be interesting. Maybe its as long as you dont re-pass before the next corner? Or in this case, on the next corner? So what if your opponent brakes way too early?

According to Alonso when you come out bus stop you would be at least 5 - 10m behind someone not 1 meter.
And Webber thinks he is in a better position to attack because the chicane was cut.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70490

 

[JRS]

He is allegedly the only person to have interviewed Hamilton about the incident. And also Hamilton would no speak a yes or no if it was only him, only nod.

what the **** is that all about? One of the most bizzar things i have ever read in an F1 story lol

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4134454,00.html

"Allegedly".....God I love that word. You can get away with saying anything if you say allegedly - no proof required :/

I resent the fact that as someone who feels the stewards decision is wrong brands me a 'whinning Hamilton fan'.

I just knew I'd offend someone with that as soon as I pressed "Submit Reply".....

Would know be a good time to point out that I myself thought the decision was wrong? Or would that be a tad too much for everyone to take right now? I know I've posted it over and over and over and over again, but since we already established that very few people are actually reading everything I type....

Am I not allowed to feel the sport is being destroyed by inconsistent and unjust rullings handed out by a governing body who fail to present evidence for their decisions and seem to be isolated from the fans that they seem to keep trying to say they are out to please?

As a follower of the sport I am entitled to dissagree with the decisions and have no trust or confidence in the FIA based upon its actions throughout the entire sport, and not be branded due to the effects on one party.

If this makes you a 'Winging Hamilton Fan', it must also make you a 'Massa Lover', 'Pit Crew Hater', 'Kimi Fan', Toyota Basher', 'Winging Glock Fan', Winging Alonso Lover' 'Complaining Heiki Fan' and 'Renault Employee'.... And thats just from the last 2 events.

Quite true, if you don't post anything that comes even close to backing up your opinion.

The main target of my comment, FrankJH (sorry Frank), hasn't posted anything that could be even nearly called proof for his claims of anti-Hamilton, pro-Ferrari bias. No proof that this Donnelly guy is influencing stewards in favour of Ferrari. No real response to some of my points (and silence can often say a lot....). He has, in fact, posted exactly dick to support his opinion as far as I can tell, which is what I've taken umbrage at. And I'm sorry that I offended you in pursuit of that.

Once more, for the record - I agree with everything you say in that post. The sport is being destroyed by horrendously inconsistent interpretations of a vague rulebook, and it needs sorting now before the damage leads to it imploding.

 

[JUMPURS]

Cant wait, every McLaren out there will be looking for blood.. and if its wet at Monza we will have plenty of people leaving the track.

And probably kimi entering the wall lol

 

[TheStig1]

Once more, for the record - I agree with everything you say in that post. The sport is being destroyed by horrendously inconsistent interpretations of a vague rulebook, and it needs sorting now before the damage leads to it imploding.

and your evidence of this inconstancy is where?
you cant take a shot at frank for not backing his opinion when you are not doing anything to back yours other than shouting a bit louder than he is

 

[Demon]

Ferrari's system isn't flawed. Kimi just done a Lewis and didn't see the lights correctly in a pit lane

And LH got (rightly) done for it!..

The conventional system would have stopped both incidents happening, the Ferrari system clearly relies on too many individuals getting their bits right, driver included. with far more failure modes then the conventional system it is flawed in comparison.

The FIA's punishment for the 2 pit lane incidents, and the fact they have left Ferrari keep the much less safe system in place is highly unorthodox, all the more so considering the swing to much harsher punishments the following race for much less serious offences, it's clear they have allowed one team to endanger pit crew and other drivers with only a token 'fine', but feel they must significantly affect the drivers title for a minor racing 'incident'. This sort of inconsistency is inexcusable.

 

[spoonz]

LOL

The old "refine the rule after the event" maneouvre. Not going to wash with me.