2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18

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FrankJH said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/mo...rd-McLaren-star-Lewis-Hamilton-choke-Spa.html

"Then it emerges that Alan Donnelly, who permanently 'co-ordinates' the three stewards who rotate from one round to the next - as well as officially representing FIA president Max Mosley at races - has taken the Ferrari shilling, through his London-based lobbying firm Sovereign Strategy.


The FIA confirmed the company worked with the Italian manufacturers' road car division, though not the F1 team on Thursday night.

Ferrari's name was erased from the list of clients a few months ago but there remains a tribute from Mosley on Sovereign's website.

Tens of thousands of fans have signed on-line petitions demanding the verdict should be rescinded. "

Just one of the many sources claiming that he acts as a Steward at all the F1 weekends and (certainly previously) acted on Ferrari's behalf away from the track
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So, let me get this one straight....he's never worked for the F1 team, only the road car company. His firm don't do any work for them any more, and don't have them on their client list. He "co-ordinates" the stewards, whatever the hell that means....and you see this as evidence that he's influenced the stewards to penalise Hamilton?

Have I gotten that about right?

FrankJH said:
Its a CLEAR conflict of interest
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There's nothing "clear" about any of this.

FrankJH said:
how can he go from day to day away from the track working for Ferrari, to be seen as whiter than white at race weekends at the track and not pro-Ferrari, Im sorry this is impossible
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Again....he did some work for Ferrari S.p.A, the road car company. He doesn't do this work any more, according to most sources. And you're still saying that he must be influencing stewards decisions in favour of Scuderia Ferrari, the racing team?

Bizarre. Just.....bizarre.
 
Emlyn_Dewar said:
JRS, are you trying to bring logic into this thread? What are you thinking?
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I appear to be fighting a losing battle against a tidal wave that is equal parts paranoia and utter insanity.

Emlyn_Dewar said:
It's quite clear that this guy is actually Di Montezemolo in disguise and that he's as corrupt as they come...
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Shh! No-one's meant to know that!
 
Got sent this today, thought I'd share. :D

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Something a little different, from Sniff Petrol

Following unfortunate misunderstandings in the Grands Prix at Valencia and Spa, the FIA has revised the Red Car Rule for Formula 1. These amendments will be applied with immediate effect:

1) Overtaking a Ferrari is not permitted under any circumstances.
2) In the pit lane, a Ferrari always has precedence over other cars.
3) Any driver finishing less than 25 seconds ahead of a Ferrari will be penalized 25 seconds.*
4) If neither Ferrari finishes in first place, the stewards reserve the right to declare the result null and void (or to adjust it as necessary).
5) Only Ferrari drivers are permitted to use anything other than ‘designated’ parts of a circuit.
6) If forced off the ‘designated’ part of the track by a Ferrari, the guilty driver should immediately crash his car and return to the pits
6) Any driver or team appealing against any FIA decision in favour of Ferrari may be subject to a fine and/or the deduction of points.
*Subject to post-race adjustment by the stewards.
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JRS said:
Again....he did some work for Ferrari S.p.A, the road car company. He doesn't do this work any more, according to most sources. And you're still saying that he must be influencing stewards decisions in favour of Scuderia Ferrari, the racing team?

Bizarre. Just.....bizarre.
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While in principle I agree that this is too much like a conspiracy, the above isn't that bizarre. The racing team (Scuderia Ferrari) is a division of Ferrari SPA. Employees of both entities move seamlessly between the two. Wasn't Enzo's reason d'etre for building road cars that he made money to go racing, an ethos that has resulted in Ferrari having the biggest budget in F1? Ferrari base a lot of their brand image on the racing heritage and F1 technology (F1 gearbox, F1 Trac etc) so its not it the least bit bizarre that a man working for Ferrari's road car program might be introduced to someone in the Scuderia......;)
 
On the budget issue

The 2008/09 edition of Formula Money, a 156-page report published by communications consultancy CNC, estimated that Toyota's team alone could count on annual resources of around $445.6 million compared to some $433.3 million for McLaren.

Champions Ferrari, the sport's most successful team, ranked only third with $414.9 million while Honda came in fourth with $398.1 million.
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nokinidea said:
That thing again
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Are you trying to drive JRS insane? :p

As far as I'm concerned, a lot of the FIA's decisions are questionable, against McLaren or otherwise.

I for one just hope Hamilton AND Kovalainen stuff the Ferrari's in their backyard then go on to win the championship, without the points lost from Spa. :)
 
MTA99 said:
While in principle I agree that this is too much like a conspiracy
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Always a bad sign when someone starts out a post by agreeing with me. Usually means a "but" is on the way....

MTA99 said:
the above isn't that bizarre.
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Aaaaaaaaaand there it is :)

MTA99 said:
The racing team (Scuderia Ferrari) is a division of Ferrari SPA.
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Believe I already stated that, so can't disagree there.

MTA99 said:
Employees of both entities move seamlessly between the two.
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Can there though.

Two things. Firstly, I doubt they're constanty shuttling employees from road cars to race cars and back. Secondly, just because a company does some work for the main company doesn't mean that they'll be hired to do work for the Scuderia which seems to be the contention of FrankJH among others.

MTA99 said:
Wasn't Enzo's reason d'etre for building road cars that he made money to go racing, an ethos that has resulted in Ferrari having the biggest budget in F1?
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Again....think I already stated that, so can't really disagree :)

MTA99 said:
Ferrari base a lot of their brand image on the racing heritage and F1 technology (F1 gearbox, F1 Trac etc) so its not it the least bit bizarre that a man working for Ferrari's road car program might be introduced to someone in the Scuderia......;)
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Yes, more's the pity. Means we get stuff like the F430 - quite pretty, horrendously fast, blessed with impeccable road manners....and saddled with one of those god-awful flappy paddle gearboxes. I know you can buy them with a proper 'box, but why is a flapp paddle 'box even offered? They don't work on the road, they're fragile, and they're expensive enough to even make a Ferrari buyer pause.

Ferrari used to build the kind of road cars they knew you needed. The customer was never boss. Now they merely build the kind they think you want. Damned shame IMO.

Murf said:
Are you trying to drive JRS insane? :p
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Too bloody late, Murf. That happened pages back.
 
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JRS said:
snip.
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He has in the recent past been paid by Ferrari

(you are trying to say there is little difference between them - and yet the drivers have "company cars" as gifts - well certainly thats how Schu got a garage full, he didnt need to pay for them)

You are clutching at straws trying to even suggest they are different companies - its no difference to Sony Japan, Sony Europe and USA - they are all allowed to use the same branding and one way or the other get funds from parent company

Also if you notice what has actually been said - Donnelly's website is not claiming he works for Ferrari any more, not that he doesnt - just the -positive proof - from the website has been removed. Clever wording nothing more
 
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JRS said:
Always a bad sign when someone starts out a post by agreeing with me. Usually means a "but" is on the way....Aaaaaaaaaand there it is :)
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Caught red handed! ;)

JRS said:
Can there though.

Two things. Firstly, I doubt they're constanty shuttling employees from road cars to race cars and back. Secondly, just because a company does some work for the main company doesn't mean that they'll be hired to do work for the Scuderia which seems to be the contention of FrankJH among others.
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I didn't suggest that they were "constantly" moving people back and forth, I was trying to make the point that the road cars and the race cars are very closely linked on a number of levels but particularly from a marketing and PR point of view (see your mini review below ;)).

Working for Ferrari SPA (in this context) *could* be anything from organising a road car owners club event to consulting on the Scuderia's PR strategy......we just don't know ......what we do know is that Sovereign Strategy have some very powerful and influential clients :eek: ;)


JRS said:
Yes, more's the pity. Means we get stuff like the F430 - quite pretty, horrendously fast, blessed with impeccable road manners....and saddled with one of those god-awful flappy paddle gearboxes. I know you can buy them with a proper 'box, but why is a flapp paddle 'box even offered? They don't work on the road, they're fragile, and they're expensive enough to even make a Ferrari buyer pause.

Ferrari used to build the kind of road cars they knew you needed. The customer was never boss. Now they merely build the kind they think you want. Damned shame IMO.
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Thanks :p
 
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