**2017 Lions tour to New Zealand**

[dl8860]

With the squad announcement imminent (and plenty of dodgy rumours circling) I thought time to kick off a Lions thread.

Looks like Warburton has just been confirmed as captain.

http://www.lionsrugby.com/home.php#.WPczKWnyuiw

Itinerary (all matches K.O. 8.35am BST)
June 3 - Provincial Union Team, Whangarei
June 7 - Blues, Auckland
June 10 - Crusaders, Christchurch
June 13 - Highlanders, Dunedin
June 17 - Maori All Blacks, Rotorua
June 20 - Chiefs, Hamilton
June 24 - All Blacks, Auckland
June 27 - Hurricanes, Wellington
July 1 - All Blacks, Wellington
July 8 - All Blacks, Auckland

Discuss!

 

[PlacidCasual]

I have to say I'm not a fan of the Lions and have found it hard to support a Lions team since 1997. I think the hugely corporate ad machine that precedes and follows the Lions since the early noughties puts me off. The constant Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, Lions, Legends, Greats, ad infinitum that spews out of the media for a year in advance building up to an insane level from the 6 nations onwards puts me off. And finally retrospectively the average is revised to the glorious with no better case than the last Lions tour where we were a slipped Kurtley Beale penalty miss away from a series loss and only played well once, the final match, in the whole tour against what has to be the worst and most poorly managed Australian team in living memory.

edit: that said I'm looking forward to a good grouse about selection

 

[dl8860]

Thanks for that captain cheerful, maybe start your own moaners thread instead?

While the 1997 tour hasn't really been eclipsed since, I thought 2009 was a fantastic tour and I really enjoyed the last one too. It's not too hard to look past the media guff you mention, sort of cutting off your nose to spite your face by letting that put you off, no?

 

[PlacidCasual]

As a grumpy Englishman I think I'm more looking forward to how the AB's will play than the team of all talents playing Warrenball. I've been a big fan of New Zealand Super Rugby for the last 6 years and the idea of Barrett, McKenzie, B Smith, A Savea and co letting rip really appeals. I'm hoping the Blues and Chiefs can put on some real cavalier action.

 

[dl8860]

Get out of my thread

 

[PlacidCasual]

Full squad
Forwards: Rory Best (Ireland), Dan Cole (England), Taulupe Faletau (Wales), Tadhg Furlong (Ireland), Jamie George (England), Iain Henderson (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), George Kruis (England), Courtney Lawes (England), Joe Marler (England), Jack McGrath (Ireland), Ross Moriarty (Wales), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Peter O'Mahony (Ireland), Ken Owens (Wales), Kyle Sinckler (England), CJ Stander (Ireland), Justin Tipuric (Wales), Billy Vunipola (England), Mako Vunipola (England), Sam Warburton (Wales)

Backs: Dan Biggar (Wales), Elliot Daly (England), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Owen Farrell (England), Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Robbie Henshaw (Ireland), Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Jonathan Joseph (England), Conor Murray (Ireland), George North (Wales), Jack Nowell (England), Jared Payne (Ireland), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Tommy Seymour (Scotland), Ben Te'o (England), Anthony Watson (England), Rhys Webb (Wales), Liam Williams (Wales), Ben Youngs (England)

Reasonably strong squad. I'm surprised how much credit Kruis has in the bank personally and I'm amazed Launchbury isn't in the squad. Best and Owens are hardly the most accurate darts players and Best in particular relies upon the perpendicular but not straight lineout technique if you follow my drift. He could come seriously unstuck with the wrong referee. I think the forward choices are pretty good in general. AJW is now living off reputation I feel but other will disagree.
The backs hmm. Biggar has been nothing like good enough, how he beats Finn Russell is beyond me. Halfpenny and Davies are now trading on name only but otherwise a reasonable crew no major omissions. I'm glad he went for a bigger squad because 10 games is a long tour

The balance between nations seems a little unfair on Scotland. I'd like to have seen Hamish Watson or Hugh Jones go as a bolter see if they can make an impact in the midweek team. The Grays are unlucky to be in a very competitive field especially as Kruis and AJW are in on reputation for my money.

The squad seems balanced enough that a variety of playing styles could be covered here's hoping we don't get a month of Warrenball.

 

[semi-pro waster]

I've got the problem of liking the Lions generally but disliking Warren Gatland, the last tour was a bit of a pain wanting the team to win but somehow for the coach to lose so we've got more of the same. I am clearly biased but I'd agree with PlacidCasual that at least a couple of Scottish players can feel a bit hard done by (Jonny Gray is the one I feel most sorry for), the team has taken big strides forwards over the past few years and there's maybe half a dozen Scots who should have a strong case for a squad place. I also feel Joe Launchbury seems to have seriously suffered from the "you're only as good as your last game" mentality because for the rest of the Six Nations he was great.

Still I'm looking forward to catching as many of the games as I can.

 

[Washout]

I can't wait! Some odd/dodgy calls but maybe they have their reasons for not picking some players who're clearly better than others - combinations, style etc.
Hope it'll be a good competitive tour.

Couple Welsh players a little lucky to be going and Launchbury has to wonder what he needed to do to go. Being probably the best player in the 6n clearly wasn't enough!

From an Irish pov I look forward to seeing what the half backs can dish up with a genuine cutting edge in the back 3. Getting the balance right in the forwards (I guess as always) will be the winning and losing of this tour though.

Last tour was a bit of an odd one - 2009 was one of my favourite sporting series ever of any kind, despite losing. Aus on the last tour were a fairly average (by their standards) team and the hole mishandling of the Bod dropping just left a slightly bitter taste despite being very happy with the win.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Now everyone else can feel the disappointment of a Gatland/Howley team selection. There are too many Welsh, not enough Scots but overall squad it not too bad. Launchbury should feel rather aggrieved though. Like above I'm looking forward to seeing Williams and North actually get a bit of decent ball and the Welsh back row function behind a good tight five.

 

[nst68]

Donnacha Ryan should be included purely to give this look when NZ to the Haka

 

[Pumpkinstew]

I actually can't argue too much with the core of the selection which willl make up the likely test starters but some of the backups show too much loyalty to his Welsh contingent. Rumour is Jamie Roberts was in the touring party until the last minute!

Launchbury should be there in place of Lawes. He does the same job but with a lower penalty count.

Halfpenny is there as a the midweek placekicker. If Hogg gets injured I assume Kearney would come in as injury cover for the test team which will have Farrell and Sexton to take kicks.

Moriarty? Eesh. Heaslip could do a better job at blindside adds a lineout jumper and also cover at number 8 if Big Billy and Taulupe get broken.

I'd prefer Maitland and Ringrose go in place of 2 of Williams, Payne or Seymour. But again this is tinkering at the fringes.

One thing the squad does is highlight the lack of good props in the British Isles, especially on the tighthead. If Furlong gets injured we're utterly boned.

 

[Washout]

Payne is a blooming good fullback. He actually plays out of position for Ireland in the centre! Kearney has been brilliant for us over the years but I really hope Ringrose can cement his position with Henshaw and we keep Payne at FB. He played very well for Ireland v England at 15 which is probably why he's snuck in. The fact he can do a very decent job in the centre hasn't hurt him.

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he starts a test as fb.

Edit: no-one does angry face like Ryan!

 

[neviditelny]

I'm really looking forward to this. It was the All Blacks that got me interested in rugby while I still lived home in Sweden 11-12 years ago and saw some highlights videos online with Jonah Lomu and the AB, that really got me curious and when I moved to the UK I thought I'll give it a go. And that is something I really don't regret. It is a wonderful game with a great athmosphere but damn I wish my work wasn't restricting me as much to train/play as much as I would like.

 

[PlacidCasual]

I'm about 15 mins behind the play, but the Lions line out is utter rubbish in defence and attack. The refs are showing them far too much respect every defensive line out they should be pinged. Also the refs are allowing quite a lot of leeway for holding on. Been impressed by the Counties team though.
Lions look rusty not surprising really. Sexton is way off the pace though.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Pah, that wasn't very impressive. Understandably the Lions were disjointed but only a few of them played to their capabilities. Just as well the first match wasn't against a super rugby side or that would have been a loss.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Just watched the Blues match. Gosh that wasn't very impressive. Ioane, Williams and Lautua (sp?) looks sharp for the Blues.
Best's final line out makes me wish Hartley was in the squad then at least we'd have 2 decent hookers with George.
Life isn't getting any easier with the Crusaders this weekend.

 

[Pumpkinstew]

We can look forward to Luatua ripping up the likes of Ealing and Jersey next season with Bristol. Farcical.
And it's cost him the chance of playing in the test series against the Lions.
Hansen's AB squad for the tests:

Spoiler

Props:

Wyatt Crockett (Canterbury, 58)

Charlie Faumuina (Auckland, 46)

Owen Franks (Canterbury, 90)

Joe Moody (Canterbury, 24)

Ofa Tu'ungafasi (Auckland, 4)

Hookers:

Dane Coles (Wellington, 49)

Codie Taylor (Canterbury, 15)

Nathan Harris (Bay of Plenty, 4)

Locks:

Scott Barrett (Taranaki, 4)

Brodie Retallick (Hawke's Bay, 60)

Luke Romano (Canterbury, 26)

Samuel Whitelock (Canterbury, 84)

Back-row:

Sam Cane (Bay of Plenty, 40)

Jerome Kaino (Auckland, 74)

Kieran Read, captain (Counties Manukau, 97)

Ardie Savea (Wellington, 12)

Liam Squire (Tasman, 8)

Scrum-halves:

Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Waikato, 25)

TJ Perenara (Wellington, 29)

Aaron Smith (Manawatu, 58)

Fly-halves:

Beauden Barrett (Taranaki, 49)

Aaron Cruden (Manawatu, 47)

Lima Sopoaga (Southland, 6)

Centres:

Ryan Crotty (Canterbury, 26)

Ngani Laumape (Manawatu, uncapped)

Anton Lienert-Brown (Waikato, 9)

Sonny Bill Williams (Counties Manukau, 33)

Back three:

Jordie Barrett (Taranaki, uncapped)

Israel Dagg (Hawke's Bay, 61)

Rieko Ioane (Auckland, 2)

Waisake Naholo (Taranaki, 12)

Julian Savea (Wellington, 52)

Ben Smith (Otago, 60)

The only worry I'd have as a kiwi is if Dane Coles isn't fit and that some of the reserve props might have some issues in the scrum. You know you have a good side when Fekitoa can't get into it.

 

[Washout]

I'm not panicking just yet. 2nd hit out but whole new starting 15 so will be a little while before they're fully up to speed. They'll have been through the trenches together by the time of the first test playing the franchises. None of those will want to be the ones that lost.

Best always has one howler lineout when the pressure is on, always. That aside he's a quality player, especially in defence.

 

[robfosters]

Ouch!

 

[PlacidCasual]

Barnes reckoned Ken Owens is the test starter at hooker, I'm inclined to suggest Jamie George.

Also how bad is the refereeing of the line out both sides have thrown clearly not straight throws to be waved on.

Much better match for Lions and a better spectacle.

What the hell was that scrum penalty against the Crusaders for?