To be fair, unless I was public sector in a gravy train position I wouldn't personally buy a car based on the ability to charge it at work because that provision could easily disappear in an instant.
£20k - BMW 330e MSport Pro - Suitable?
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This is true, same could be said about compromising your vehicle choice of a PHEV, when a pure petrol would be a better option. The comments from the OP seem to be all over the place though, as they seems to have no real working knowledge of either a PHEV/BEV, or a charger etc. A comment "They could also put a charge lead under a mat on the pavement from the door to the car, but the council would have a fit if they stuck a permanent wall charger there." I mean if they can run a cable what the heck have the council got to do with putting a charger on their own house, even if rented, that is just confusing. Also cost money saving has been said to be a none issue, so not sure when benefit the PHEV has at all, just seems like a total faff, and hassle.
Yeah, sounds like a good case for going away and having a good think about what they are trying to achieve.
A couple of people at work are interested in getting a PHEV after seeing my one and I'm completely impartial about it. I'm happy to answer their questions but ultimately they need to do their own research and I certainly wouldn't promote owning one, not do I think I'd buy one myself.
Due to my work trips often being quite long my long term average fuel economy is relatively low (64 mpg over the last 4600 miles). I also don't have enough electric range to complete my commute both ways but excluding work trips my fuel economy is around 150 mpg (versus 45 mpg in my previous car) so there can be some decent fuel and emissions savings even if you have to fire up the ICE daily so long as you charge it religiously.
I'm coming at it from a company car perspective though so I make money on my business miles (anything over 42 mpg and I'm money up), save money on my private miles (150 mpg vs 45 mpg) and save on the BIK. Any additional cost (purchase price, depreciation, maintenance, expensive car tax etc.) is picked up by the company. In summary I got it purely for the BIK but it's actually a much better fit for my use than I'd anticipated.
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Soldato
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It did say that to begin with but as I was driving it it went down, rather than adjusted like my electric car does
I have driven others which started off with a lower range (but still higher than the one above), yet quickly adapted as I drove it.
From memory, it was just over half charged with 6 miles of range stated. By the time I did a quick test drive, it was basically “flat” (I know not actually flat, but 0 electric only range). I think the route was about 6-8 miles and I did it mostly on electric only, apart from a couple of nippy getaways.
I did really love the dual purpose of it though.
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So if 4k out of 10k is a commute where only the charging happens on one side, the actual number of miles done with plug-in electric support isn't going to be much. 6k miles otherwise driving a hybrid with unnecessarily large batteries.
You also lose a fair bit of boot space.
320i seems like a much better bet.
You also lose a fair bit of boot space.
320i seems like a much better bet.
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vanilla 320s were more expensive when I'd considered 330e - testament to market skepticism of the 330e (including it's battery warranty - my objection)
can't see that any of the aftermarket battery warranty companies have engaged with phev's yet, and having read about some of the surreptitious ways they degrade,
non-linearly eg https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2055239 seemed like a risk.
can't see that any of the aftermarket battery warranty companies have engaged with phev's yet, and having read about some of the surreptitious ways they degrade,
non-linearly eg https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2055239 seemed like a risk.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
The 3 Series is a better car than either of those, it's not just the badge that is better. That said, I am not sure I'd see the value of a 330e at this end of the market.
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I'm trying to say that 1 hour of charging anything at 3.6kw, will give you a maximum of 3.6kwh in the battery. In reality it will be lower because of conversion losses and charging rate. Rounding to 3kwh (multiplied by the average of 3.5 m/kwh) gives you 10 miles of range. So no, you couldn't "cover a whole day's commute in 1 hour."I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? Are you saying that a 3.6kW charger cannot sustain 3.6kW? Or that the cars OBC can't take 3.6kW.
Also I took the weekly as 5 days commuting but if it is only 3 then the PHEV is even more pointless, since the 330e in the price range they are looking at has a 10.4kWh useable battery (12kWh), so 27 miles is not gonna happen for at least half of the year, and more realistically they get a maximum of 18 miles even in decent weather. So that 27 miles is never going to be covered using the Electric only, the battery will almost be dead by the time they get home at night, and the next time they go in it is either empty from being used locally/for something else, or they'll get 5 miles max, so using fuel.
The cheaper commuting isn't really going to offset the higher costs when not in PHEV mode on longer runs though, as above they'll be lucky to get 2500 or the 4000 miles in electric mode. If they want blasts of power just get a faster/higher BHP electric car. It honestly seem like they are over complicating it, especially if they have free charging that they can plug in all day at for 3 days a week.
Why are you mentioning those two cars specifically, as highlighted they are nothing like each other, one is a minimalist saloon with mega efficiency and the other is a performance (luxury?) SUV/crossover. I mentioned the EQC since it ticks some of the boxes, you forgot about the Genesis, assume you are unfamiliar?
Using your estimates for the commute, 27 miles for half of the year and say 14 miles for the other half of the year would result in 3k out of the 4k commuting miles being cheaper due to the charging at work. This, to me at least, doesn't seem 'pointless'. I agree it's not a life-altering financial difference, so would be a bonus.
Could you expand a little more on why the 3k cheap miles won't offset the higher costs when not in PHEV mode? Other than lugging round a 50kg battery, what else is making the cost higher?
Mentioning the iPace and Model 3 because they are the only two EVs that will comfortably do more than 200 miles in any weather and tick the premium box. Didn't forget about the Genesis, but a non-starter from a 'premium' point of view. The EQC is a fair exception to this, so will look into it, if they want to go the full-electric route.
This is the point of the thread. They feel that the PHEV isn't a compromise over pure petrol, and if properly warrantied, I'm trying to find tangible reasons why it wouldn't work. So far the smaller boot in the saloon is the most rational point being made.
I have two BEVs, with a 7kw wall charger and off-street parking, so I'm not a complete newcomer to BEVs and charging. With regards to "I mean if they can run a cable what the heck have the council got to do with putting a charger on their own house" - the council can and will issue a notice to remove something that is going to cause (in their view) a trip hazard. When the government were subsidising EV charger installs, it was a specific requirement that it couldn't be mounted in a place where the cable would reasonably be likely to go across a public walkway. Going around London you'll regularly see extension leads through letterboxes with a mat covering the cable on the pavement, but no 7kw wall box. My presumption is that the difference is permanence.
Other than plugging in at work - what 'faff and hassle' is there? This is genuinely what I've come to get opinions on.
I agree - about 30% is likely to be electric only. The boot space is a valid argument and they've looked at it and are happy, but perhaps they need to try their suitcases in one, or buy different suitcases.
Why specifically do you feel the 320i is a better bet (presuming the boot space thing is ok, or they go for a touring)?
Thanks,
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The 330e is cheap on the used market in my opinion both because some people are uncertain about the longevity and long term costs associated with the hybrid system and the battery and also because there is a significant volume of used ones available as the 330e was a very popular fleet car for company car users.
It is up to you whether you share these concerns.
The benefit the 320i offers is removing this perceived risk but also the considerable increase in fuel tank size as well - the tank on the 320i is about 50% larger.
What do you think the real world range on electric of a 2020 330e is? I don't know myself but I don't think it's a huge number.
It is up to you whether you share these concerns.
The benefit the 320i offers is removing this perceived risk but also the considerable increase in fuel tank size as well - the tank on the 320i is about 50% larger.
What do you think the real world range on electric of a 2020 330e is? I don't know myself but I don't think it's a huge number.
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On the mercedes side, with that money can get their 15kwh battery phev, half way towards the 20Kwh / 60mile (promise) on the this years 8yr warranty phevs
still stuck with 6 yr battery warranty though CLA 250e break say https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501208219703
? boot strangely seems bigger >400L than a 330etouring too.
still stuck with 6 yr battery warranty though CLA 250e break say https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501208219703
? boot strangely seems bigger >400L than a 330etouring too.
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I think those concerns could be realistically disregarded with the BMW extended warranty. Is that misguided in your experience of their warranties?
The fuel tank issue was considered but at 320 miles they felt it was fine as it's no worse than what they have now.
Range-wise they are estimating 25 miles in decent temperatures and 18-20 when it's colder, which seems reasonable based on even an inefficient estimate of 2.5 m/kwh.
I'm seeing the huge number available as a good thing so that they can be picky. And purely out of presumption, the low numbers of 320i puts me off but the not so for the 330i as I'd assume they've been bought by more enthusiastic owners that would be more likely to take care of them.
I suppose also the new market for the 320i was pretty limited. If you wanted the slower, economy-minded car you'd be buying a 318d or 320d, if you wanted something with some shove, it'd be 330i, 340i, or 335d. So I guess that tracks that the 320i is pretty rare!
While your points may be valid 5 years ago with the OLEV grant, that is not the case now since there is no grant, and the council have no rights to randomly remove something unless you are making it a hazard, an EV charging gully can be fitted, or they can use a cable ramp which is deemed a non-permanent fixture even it it is used 8 hours a day 7 days a week.
Example of one type of ramp - https://www.edion.co.uk/
Example of one type of gulley - https://www.kerbocharge.com/
I don't think they'll cover 3k miles on full electric mode charging only at one end, best way to find out is extended test drive and do the route in this sort of weather. I think it'll be more like 2.3-2.5k miles from the 4k. As for the cost, if the other 6k miles are big long trips with the battery only doing a small fraction of the miles, it pulls the MPG right down to likely less than the 320i (again you'd need real world data), so you need to add the cost of the extra fuel use and offset that against the savings made on the miles done on the free electricity.
Not trying to say it won't be a better car, but the servicing and warranty will cost more, and there is always a chance it will be less reliable for not a lot of gain really.
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I think the extended warranty product excludes cover for high voltage batteries in hybrids (not sure about the warranty you'd get for an AUC), which is probably what drives a fair bit of the nervousness that Fox describes.
Unfortunately the insured warranty product excludes the high voltage battery.
nervousness is less for the 2nd owner of the car where the bmw phev 6yr battery warranty lasts their ownership, it is the depreciation that that introduces & value when 2nd owner wants to sell it.
e: OK new battery w/fitting 3-5k incorporate that in purchase decision .. buy a 16K 2020 car with higher % of electric miles
e: OK new battery w/fitting 3-5k incorporate that in purchase decision .. buy a 16K 2020 car with higher % of electric miles
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I know someone who got a 330e about 7 years ago now. He needed it because he needed to avoid paying the London congestion charge. The fuel economy is not great when the electric charge runs out. That makes sense imo with the added weight (I think kerb weights are like 250kg apart).
If somehow 30% of miles is on electric only, which seems optimistic imo, then it should more than cancel that out.
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That’s frustrating. The last time I was looking at BMWs (e90) my understanding was that the warranty was about as close to a gold standard as you could get. Has this been watered down or the the HV battery the main exclusion? Any other big exclusions like airbag faults or infotainment issues?
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Any idea what the real-world petrol-only economy was/is like? 40s upward is probably the (arbitrary and purely psychological) limit.