20mph residential speed limit (replacing 30mph)

[413x]

So this is a hit topic this side of the border. Mainly affecting south Wales I think. But other areas too.

From (next week?) we have been told to assume where 30 was is now 20..unless told otherwise.

This is being done under for safety.


My opinion..
I'm against this myself.

A few reasons
-As a "suburb" dweller it will add time.
-I think it's unnecessary in commuter areas, I get it in inner city areas.
-illegal. Scooters/bikes will be faster than cars
-cycling...

Cycling
As a ebike cyclist also, 20mph is only 5mph above the 15.5mph limit on legal ebikes.
This (imo) will cause same issue you have when lorries overtake each other. The passing time will be huge! Or maybe even impossible.

How many drivers are going to want to sit at 15mph waiting for a space, often no space, to overtake Vs trying a dodgy overtake.
Id rather cars overtake at 30, (fast), than dawdle and spend several seconds parallel to me, cutting in too early etc.

This is why it's fine where there's cycle lanes - No issue. But here? Where there are none? Not so good.

Anyone live in one of these 20 areas who can counter or agree with this?

For myself, it's just another negative about living in the suburbs. Cardiff is getting very anti car, which is fine, but public transport in this area is terrible. I just don't go into town anymore. (need to move)

 

[413x]

Does it really add time though? One thing I have learnt about driving fast, is sometimes I am only getting somewhere a few mins faster, would not be end of the world if I didn't

We will see. I think it will. But I will track it.
My automatic car doesn't like it. It revs higher than at 30. Obviously a gear lower.

It won't add as much as the dramatic facbook posts say. But it will add time in less stop/start areas.

 

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The blanket nature of this is ridiculous.

Absolutely. It was fine as is. Outside schools, inner city areas with lots of pedestrians.

Our little road where the pavements are wide, a few people walk up and down? No. Not needed.

 

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Many are already 20, but is pretty much unenforceable.

There will be people going 30 as before, I suspect there will even be people overtaking those going 20.

I've heard reports that the evidence for safety is dubious. Ie, it's not a slam dunk life saver.

 

[413x]

They are based on old drum brake distances I think :/

A modern car can stop in a tiny distance from 30mph.

A lot of accidents on residential roads are people stepping out from behind parked cars right Infront of someone

Which is what the safety is probably for.
But isn't it natural selection?

 

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My new build estate is limited to 20. People drive about 25 in reality. There's no enforcement. 25 is an appropriate speed for the roads, which were designed in an anti-car way.

On my way to the tip there's a village who reduced their speed limit from 30 to 20. Very annoying to drive through, so slow for no reason. I'm probably more dangerous from feeling frustrated than just driving at 30. They are busybodies with speed cameras so you have to go along with it unfortunately.

If it was ever changed to 20 throughout England, I'd happily elect whoever would change it back to 30.

I wonder if it will be a big win for the tories.
I doubt it. But I'm sure it will get them a bit of a boost.

I think it will cause frustration. Especially when a 30er comes across a 20er and wants to overtake in a village. See it rarely at 30. But at 20,it might happen a lot more

 

[413x]

I think this is going to cause issues, some people will stick to 20 (in reality about 17-18), there will be a lot of dodgy overtaking in these 20 zones.

This is one of my fears.
I guess we will get data back in a year

 

[413x]

It does seem like a weird hill for welsh labour to die on, with all the things they could push for they choose this. it was always going to be deeply unpopular and the evidence behind it seems shaky at best for a blanket change.

With other again hugely unpopular transport things they've done like cancel the 3rd Menai straights crossing won't leave them in good stead around these parts at all. Especially with the old Menai bridge having just undergone an emergency closure for months as it hadn't been maintained for years and years due to corrupt contracts and now we're facing 2 years of traffic lights on it while repairs are done..

I'm guessing it's personal? Ie Drakeford really wants it or something. I think he hates cars

Its a vote loser at best.
No one is going to change from tory to Labour for it. But there may be a fair few (not enough) that switch the other way.

Idealogically, I like it. Doing the right thing irrespective of vote winner. But I don't like this actual policy.

It does seem about 50:50 from friends. Mostly those in city support it, but people out here mostly don't. Very much seems (as expected) to be how much you drive.

I believe it supposed to save lives. But will dent the economy...

 

[413x]

From what I'm hearing it's not always a straight swap, some roads are still 30 so relies on you to keep your wits about you (you are anyway as your driving but you have to be that bit extra cautious)

Its nearly all 30 to 20.
I think its like single digit percentages that are still 30

 

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Mine's a 8spd auto. It's already in 5th gear by 30 mph... If my memory serves me correct.

I barely go over 2000rpm on my journeys.
And yes I agree 20mph is silly slow for the blanket deployment.

Mines a 4 speed auto!

I tested it last night. 20 is a gear down than 30.
30 is about 1800 rpm
20 is about 2000-2100 rpm

On a straight, cruising, flat

 

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I'll make a note of my gear and rpm next time I'm out at those speeds.

4spd... Dayyyum. Congrats on running an antique

I park it next to my penny farthing!

 

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This is the goal.

It's a way to push people out of cars. Why drive when other methods are faster and in the case of cycles, exempt from the speed limit...

I believe so. It really makes me want to move. No way I'm going to use my expensive ebike to go to town.
So really, it makes living in the suburbs just more unappealing.

You dont get the freedom of the countryside. But it's becoming so anti car it's still off putting to go to town.
You dont get the ease of going in to town as living in the city

I only go to out of town shopping now. Such is the hassle and cost of going into the city.

 

[413x]

I'll probably carry on driving at 30.
Im not gonna overtake a 20mph driver. But. I'm certainly not going 20 down a rural out of village road.

I find 20 really frustrating. Maybe it'll change in time. But right now? I'll be sticking to 30 mainly.

Car is quite noisy at 20 too.

 

[413x]

I'm not in GW but when I popped into town this morning at half six, I deliberately drove along the main road at 20mph (there was nobody else about) to feel what it was like. The speed limit on that road is 30mph.

Awful. It felt terribly slow. My car was in a lower gear than normal and my engine speed was higher than it would be at 30mph so this is less economical.

Where will this stupidity stop? Give it a few years and some bright spark will decide it should be 15mph.

This is same as my car.
20 is a gear lower and higher rev.
I'll probably drive at whatever pops out into the gear above.

 

[413x]

This you welshy? @413x

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705534083143495961

Jesus! That's barbaric!

 

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Jesus! And wtf was that copper just standing there for while the other one was on fire!

Yeah thought that too! He did nothing,

 

[413x]

It really is very slow. If you're on a 30 for around a mile unbroken it feels like torture. It's the feeling you get following a tractor.

From what I'm seeing the minority are not following it. But when you get someone following it, you get a queue.

It also very confusings as not all old 30s are 30s.

You've got a mix of
-it's 20 signed as 20
-it's 20 singed as 30
-Its 30 signed as 30 (with people going 20)

See a lot of people cancelling trips to deep Wales. But it may well be a vocal minority. And may well subside in time. But it's certainly not going to do any favours for Welsh tourism.

Its probably going to help the tories in a GE. As it's very Labour (drakeford) inspired and very much disliked. Not sure why it was done before the GE.


So yeah, overall negative, very frustrating living in the suburbs. And I'd go out on a limb and say it will be seen as a negative in time.

Wonder if England will follow eventually? Not sure how you measure "success" of this

 

[413x]

I was in north Wales this weekend. Went through a few 20mph parts, they were short and didn’t really affect the journey. Most villages were still 30mins though.

I actually think driving super rurally it'll be OK.
Its when you're in the suburbs that it gets annoying. As there are but long stretches of 30.

Driving into town for me is mostly 30 and it adds a good chunk of time. But driving out rurally isn't so bad.

 

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Do you keep writing 30 when you mean 20

Loool! Yes!
Like driving.. On autopilot!

 

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For someone that lives and works in wales, its a bloody nightmare that's been poorly implemented.

The phrase a **** up in brewery comes to mind.

My village has the new 20 mph signs, but the repeaters and road marking all say 30. And of course there was a speed camera van at the bottom of the steepest hill the Monday after the switch, never seen one before.

Cant wait for the first lot of prosecutions to come through, what speed are you supposed to do? the entry signs which you can miss if you come off a side street say 20 but all the roundals say 30....

Best bit is they've lowered a load of dual carriageways to 50mph secretly. The dual carriageway between abergavveny and raglan is now 50mph down from 70mph. You can now go faster on the old ross road with all its bends than the perfectly save dual carriageway.

Dickford is gonna get bent over at the next election.

Its a massive win for the tories in labour.
At least there isn't a GE coming soon. Because that would be terrible timing..

Wait..