24p dizzy inducing.

[thepharcyde]

Here you go.......long long read.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-...85-800-owners-settings-discussion-thread.html

Shortened version
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-televisions/757142-tx-37lzd85-24fps.html

 

[photoshop]

Hmm something, either TV or HTPC, is not doing their job properly.

My HTPC plays 1080p/24Hz fine on my 50" panny and im not even using any fancy GPU - just the onboard X1250 graphics on my F-190HD mobo.

Need some more info:

- System Spec
- TV Settings
- Software / Codecs used

It may turn out to be a software issue. Depends on what ATi drivers you are using and what H.264 codec is used to play HD material.

 

[Vertigo]

Here you go.......long long read.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-...85-800-owners-settings-discussion-thread.html

Shortened version
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-televisions/757142-tx-37lzd85-24fps.html

Only read the second thread but it looks like they're on about some kind of motion interpolation system on the Panny which is engaged at 24fps. Presumably this is because 24fps is a low frame rate so they deem the interpolation system desirable, yet it's introducing artifacts.

My HTPC plays 1080p/24Hz fine on my 50" panny and im not even using any fancy GPU - just the onboard X1250 graphics on my F-190HD mobo.

You are switching the refresh rate of the onboard graphics to a multiple of 24Hz I presume?

 

[photoshop]

You are switching the refresh rate of the onboard graphics to a multiple of 24Hz I presume?

I've created a profile in ATi CCC for 1980x1080 @ 24Hz. I use this when watching HD media. I use 60hz for all other media.

 

[Vertigo]

How are you switching the refresh rate? Manually or using some automatic method? Using reclock myself but getting some weird effects with MCE sometimes.

 

[Demon]

Yet again I think everyone is talking at cross-purposes when they refer to "judder".

24p "reduces judder" in that it gets rid of the regular "jerking" motion that happens when trying to play a 24fps source at a 50 or 60Hz refresh rate.

What I think pharcyde is referring to, however, is the fact that, even when played properly at 24Hz, thus removing the above jerk motion, 24fps is still a relatively low frame rate and some people are far more sensitive to it. I believe he's showing his material correctly at 24Hz, it's just that he doesn't like the low frame rate that results.

The problem is that film differs from video and 24fps looks far smoother in the cinema than it does at home. Personally I do notice the low frame rate on some large sweeping pans but aside from that I find it fine. If it does bother you then I think you're pretty much screwed as virtually all HD films are in 24fps.

Absolutely spot on, that's my understanding/experience as well..

Here's a good article on it..
http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm

The only way we are going to get 'smooth' video is having a TV/Projector with frame interpolation processing..
My Toshiba ZF LCD has 5:5 pulldown, for 24fps, but it stil judders until you switch on the frame interpolation..

 

[photoshop]

How are you switching the refresh rate? Manually or using some automatic method? Using reclock myself but getting some weird effects with MCE sometimes.

Im using hotkeys.
I've created profiles within ATi CCC and just use Alt+1, Alt+2.....etc to switch between them.

 

[thepharcyde]

Im using hotkeys.
I've created profiles within ATi CCC and just use Alt+1, Alt+2.....etc to switch between them.

Snap do you not watch live TV on your HTPC. I have mine set at 50hz.

 

[photoshop]

Snap do you not watch live TV on your HTPC. I have mine set at 50hz.

No mate. HTPC is used purely for filebased bluray playback (and some DivX that the PS3 cant play) and internet surfing
I use Virgin and Sky to watch live TV

 

[Vertigo]

I have my HTPC set to 50Hz for smooth PAL TV playback but use ReClock with a script and a refresh rate changing utility to switch to 24Hz when viewing MKVs.

 

[thepharcyde]

No mate. HTPC is used purely for filebased bluray playback (and some DivX that the PS3 cant play) and internet surfing
I use Virgin and Sky to watch live TV

Okay

 

[bliss]

Did you ever fix the 40sec catch up blip pharcyde?

 

[thepharcyde]

Yes chap, PC went belly up so I did a fresh install of Vista. With minimal codecs, CoreAV and PowerDVD. MKV HD files seem to play fine through VLC player now at 24hz

I had CCC installed before that includes loads and loads of codecs etc, and I think it just conflicted with one another.

 

[Richiev4]

24p reduced judder for me, perhaps it is your TV.

And me - PS3 to Samsung LCD TV - looks great

 

[bliss]

Yes chap, PC went belly up so I did a fresh install of Vista. With minimal codecs, CoreAV and PowerDVD. MKV HD files seem to play fine through VLC player now at 24hz

I had CCC installed before that includes loads and loads of codecs etc, and I think it just conflicted with one another.

I'm just using PowerDVD, CoreAVC, Xvid, AC3Filter. Still getting the odd little pauses with 24p material.

 

[thepharcyde]

I'm just using PowerDVD, CoreAVC, Xvid, AC3Filter. Still getting the odd little pauses with 24p material.

Have you tried VLC? Is this still the case with Bluray discs too?

 

[bliss]

Have you tried VLC? Is this still the case with Bluray discs too?

Yep. Any 24p material pauses for a millisecond every now and then. I presume it's the same time in between each pause but not all of them are noticable.

Iirc didn't you have something similar?

 

[thepharcyde]

Yep. Any 24p material pauses for a millisecond every now and then. I presume it's the same time in between each pause but not all of them are noticable.

Iirc didn't you have something similar?

Funny enough, just noticed it on Casino Royale!

 

[bliss]

Funny enough, just noticed it on Casino Royale!

I don't think you can remove it. Hence the need for things like Reclock which seem to be a pain to setup and then not really work too well.

How can Blurays be marketed for PC usage if this is what playback is like on a 24p TV?!

I think i'll be buying a standalone player sometime in the not too distant future as i know for a fact that this does not happen.

 

[thepharcyde]

Its pcs unfortunately. A dedicated Bluray player would be fine. But as they are shot at 23.xxx it accounts why its jerking. Why not film at 25 or something that at least is easy to match exactly or in multiples.

I have to say VLC player seems to be the better option for me