3 tiers of drives ?

richardjb

richardjb

richardjb

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Hi, I am about to build a new Gaming/VR PC and would like input on storage design. Can anyone help or recommend solution

1. For resilience, Im thinking I would mirrored OS disks with 2x M.2 NVME devices RAID1'd - Will this reduce performance, enhance performance or be exactly the same as 1x M.2 NVME (I dont want cost / MTBF taken into the consideration, just performance and impact on overall system)

2. If I went with the solution above, is it normal to then have 2 tier of storage using more traditional SSD and then third tier of storage for large volumes using spinning disks

Rich
 
If RAID is intelligent enough, it could divide read of file between both drives.
But that wouldn't make real world difference to Windows/game loading times, because NVMe makes only little difference over SATA despite huge jump in theoretical performance.

With very limited number of M.2 slots wouldn't consider it very sensible.
And remember that RAID isn't backup, because user eror, malware of serious hardware failrue can still destroy all data.
So important data would still have to backupped to external media.
 
Hiya, thanks for feedback
I am basically looking for OS resilience without a performance hit, rather than a performance gain.
I have automated onsite and manual offsite backups so not at all worried about data loss, just os protection.

Why does the limted number of M.2 slots make it not sensible, what else would I use them for in a gaming/vr PC?
 
richardjb said:
I am aware of Microsoft Storage Spaces only coincidentally to managing a Nutanix solution
How do you use it, what disks do you use it with, does it need a microsoft server licence?
Click to expand...
Any disks you like~it's a jbod I guess sort of
Unlike raid if you add disks of different
Sizes you don't lose space
Can mix and match sata and nvme disks if necessary
It's a free part of Windows
It's handy if already got a load of different drives kicking around from upgrades etc
It survives re~installing windows even though it's software based
As long as don't format the disks using in it obviously
Might not work for everyone depending what they want to do
But I find it extremely useful
 
Like @Mcnumpty2323 I'm a big fan of Microsoft Storage Spaces. I too just throw all my old SDD + HDD's into one Storage Pool and divide them up to suit my needs.

On one PC I have the Storage Pool split between a Parity Storage Space for backups and a Mirror Storage Space for setup files, drivers, Windows/ Linux iso's (yes actually iso's not the other kind :P )

On my other PC I have my Storage Pool split between a Simple Storage Space that I use for game capture with OBS. The other is a Tiered Storage Space that I've installed all my games too. Windows intelligently monitors the Tiered Space. Moving the most commonly used game files onto the SSD and least used game files onto the HDD. This means after the first load of a game I get SSD-like performance on a drive with the large capacity of a HDD :)
Tiered Spaces are not officially supported on Windows 10 yet. So won't be trusting anything beyond my games library for the time being while I test it.

Toying with the idea of buying a smallish NVMe drive to speed up the Tiered Space further. Apparently You can Tier NVMe >> SSD >> HDD. I really don't have a use case beyond curiosity to justify buying right now.
 
Thanks guys, that's all really useful
I think what ill do is have a play with Storage Spaces and Tiered Storage Spaces, and check some performance figures, then decide.

Btw if I mirror two NVMEs at BIOS level I assume storage spaces wouldn't see the two drives? is that correct?
 
Not tried
But sounds about right as bios mirror is hardware raid
One point with storage space
You set the maximum size at the start
Ie say I have 2tb of drives laying around
I could still tell it to be a 10tb storage space
And add more drives later
Or replace drives with larger ones
If told it 2tb I would be limited to 2tb
 
Sounds too complicated setting up RAID in the BIOS. You'll then have extra drivers etc. Just put everything in a Storage Pool and manage the drives there.

You can get very creative with the setup of your Storage Spaces if you are willing to use the Powershell. Not got to the hardware to play around with the more advanced options myself. Still, I can't see any reason why you couldn't set your Fast Tier to 2x NVMe drives in a Mirror and your Slow Tier to 3x HDD's in a RAID5-like arrangement. Or even both Fast and Slow Tiers in RAID0-like mode for mind-boggling speed. Then let Windows move data back and forth between the Tiers depending on what files you use the most.
 
Firejack said:
Sounds too complicated setting up RAID in the BIOS. You'll then have extra drivers etc. Just put everything in a Storage Pool and manage the drives there.
You can get very creative with the setup of your Storage Spaces if you are willing to use the Powershell. Not got to the hardware to play around with the more advanced options myself. Still, I can't see any reason why you couldn't set your Fast Tier to 2x NVMe drives in a Mirror and your Slow Tier to 3x HDD's in a RAID5-like arrangement. Or even both Fast and Slow Tiers in RAID0-like mode for mind-boggling speed. Then let Windows move data back and forth between the Tiers depending on what files you use the most.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I'm working on the assumption, quite probably wrong, that it would be quicker at hardware level than a software level, bear in mind I'm also talking from hands on experience 10+yrs ago when my assumption was correct. its possibly not relevant now, or so insignificant as to not bother. As for Powershell, I am happy to be creative with it, and like what you're suggesting is possible re fast tiers and slower tiers. It sounds like i just need to buy some bits and get my hands dirty. thanks!

chroniclard said:
Unsure what you are trying to achieve.....seems quite pointless to mirror an OS drive. Windows is pretty quick to install these days. Could just backup the os drive now and again.
Click to expand...
I dont really want to have to rebuild a PC OS with all the applications and configuration if i can help it. If you're saying there is a simple application I can use to take a perfect backup of my OS, registry & apps etc and be able to restore (over the network?) without too much trouble, what would you suggest?
 
richardjb said:
FWIW, I'm working on the assumption, quite probably wrong, that it would be quicker at hardware level than a software level, bear in mind I'm also talking from hands on experience 10+yrs ago when my assumption was correct. its possibly not relevant now, or so insignificant as to not bother. As for Powershell, I am happy to be creative with it, and like what you're suggesting is possible re fast tiers and slower tiers. It sounds like i just need to buy some bits and get my hands dirty. thanks!


I dont really want to have to rebuild a PC OS with all the applications and configuration if i can help it. If you're saying there is a simple application I can use to take a perfect backup of my OS, registry & apps etc and be able to restore (over the network?) without too much trouble, what would you suggest?
Click to expand...

You can periodically create a system image in windows and then restore it via a system restore usb stick or there are a third party programs that will do similar.

Dunno about restoring over a network. :)
 
richardjb said:
FWIW, I'm working on the assumption, quite probably wrong, that it would be quicker at hardware level than a software level, bear in mind I'm also talking from hands on experience 10+yrs ago when my assumption was correct. its possibly not relevant now, or so insignificant as to not bother. As for Powershell, I am happy to be creative with it, and like what you're suggesting is possible re fast tiers and slower tiers. It sounds like i just need to buy some bits and get my hands dirty. thanks!


I dont really want to have to rebuild a PC OS with all the applications and configuration if i can help it. If you're saying there is a simple application I can use to take a perfect backup of my OS, registry & apps etc and be able to restore (over the network?) without too much trouble, what would you suggest?
Click to expand...
Make an image
It's a perfect copy
Easy to do with free software like macrium
Can restore in minutes~depending on hard drive speed obviously
More complex but more foolproof
As for example Microsoft updated something and it stopped macrium older images being restored
Would be once you have your base line pc installation you make a custom install. wim file of your pc
Then replace install. wim that's on Windows installation
You can then install Windows at any point
And it will install all your stuff in the process exactly same as your pc was
 
I'm so out of touch its silly, but massive appreciation for you guys putting me on the right track, Ill probably have more questions
Ill certainly take a look at Macrium, and also allocate some time performing testing of mirroring, failures, macrium, etc before using it in anger.
I feel a spending spree coming on !
 
richardjb said:
I'm so out of touch its silly, but massive appreciation for you guys putting me on the right track, Ill probably have more questions
Ill certainly take a look at Macrium, and also allocate some time performing testing of mirroring, failures, macrium, etc before using it in anger.
I feel a spending spree coming on !
Click to expand...
it doesnt take long to get out of touch
since computers especially hardware can progress quickly
and have loads of confusing naming versions that dont always make it clear whats newer
or better
more questions we will be here for you :)
 
EsaT said:
If RAID is intelligent enough, it could divide read of file between both drives.
But that wouldn't make real world difference to Windows/game loading times, because NVMe makes only little difference over SATA despite huge jump in theoretical performance.

With very limited number of M.2 slots wouldn't consider it very sensible.
And remember that RAID isn't backup, because user eror, malware of serious hardware failrue can still destroy all data.
So important data would still have to backupped to external media.
Click to expand...

I backup my windows boot drive every few weeks using Acronis True Image onto a external hdd.
 
richardjb said:
1. For resilience, Im thinking I would mirrored OS disks with 2x M.2 NVME devices RAID1'd
Click to expand...

Check the number of PCIe channels available for this. You don't want to impact other aspects of the system.

richardjb said:
2. If I went with the solution above, is it normal to then have 2 tier of storage using more traditional SSD and then third tier of storage for large volumes using spinning disks
Click to expand...

Just go straight SSD for internal storage and use a HDD for backing up.
 
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