30/11 Strikes.
- Thread starter wordy
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@Dolph out of curiosity what job do you do?....
Breach of health and safety putting the workforce directly in clear risk with a refusal to resolve. However, it would be limited to the task concerned.
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1 person ain't going to change the world Dolph.
Soldato
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erm, I just laughed ! ha ha... a little hypocritical of me but I mean in politics.
Not where politics are involed. Is Dolph trying to be like Steve Jobs of Politics?
PS I vote dolph for next prime minister.
Copied from the Unison website and pasted because I know that many of you would be loathed to link to it!
'Pensions: busting the myths
MYTH - People are living longer which means they're claiming their pensions for longer - this needs to be addressed.
The schemes were revised to take account of this three years ago - so scheme benefits and costs are now 25% lower.
In addition, life expectancy has increased, but less so for manual workers and the low paid.
MYTH - There's a big public sector pensions deficit that has to be repaid.
There is no funding gap - the public sector schemes were assessed for long term risk and adjusted accordingly three years ago and are now very secure.
Both the local government pension scheme and NHS pension scheme are currently cash rich with income far exceeding outgoings - some £2 billion in the case of the NHS pension scheme.
MYTH - The proposals mean that those earning over £15,000 pay around 3% more each month - that's not very much is it?
3% of your pay is a significant chunk of income. Pension scheme members currently pay around 6% of their salary into their pensions - adding another 3% to this means increasing the payments by around half again.
The Local Government Association is even worried that this would lead public sector workers to opt out of pension schemes and threaten their affordability.
MYTH - Public services and public service pensions are causing the financial crisis.
It was the banking sector's reckless risk taking and excessive greed that caused this global recession.
MYTH - We're all in it together. Everyone has to make sacrifices right now - why not public sector workers?
We are all facing cuts to our public services - on top of this public service workers are facing unprecedented job cuts and a pay freeze. Is it fair to ask them to pay an average 3% more from their salaries on top of all that in return for a pension with worse benefits?
We will all end up paying more tax if people drop out of the scheme to end up relying on the state in their old age.
MYTH - It's not fair, why should the public sector get good pensions when the private sector doesn't?
The average director of a FTSE 100 company has a final salary pension worth £3.6m or £174,963 a year, while the average occupational pension generally is £9,500 a year and the average public service pension is £7,800 a year. That's the real unfairness.
UNISON thinks everyone deserves an adequate pension, including workers in the private sector. We should improve bad schemes rather than make good ones bad.
Providing adequate pensions means that fewer people will be receiving welfare handouts after retirement, which would cost the taxpayer more money in the long run.
MYTH - Public sector workers have it too good with huge pensions.
The average public service pension is around £7,800 a year, for women working in local government the average is £2,800 a year, while the median for women working in the NHS is £3,500 a year: hardly huge pensions.
Saving towards an occupational pension in many cases means a person is receiving fewer welfare benefits during retirement, saving the taxpayer money.
MYTH - Taxpayers are paying for public service workers' pensions. That's not fair.
Everyone's taxes are used to pay for all public services - stethoscopes in hospitals, the salaries of primary school teachers, people to change the light bulbs in street lamps, and part of these people's pay is their pension.
A pension is part of someone's salary package and is no different than an annual salary, a car, or the London weighting allowance. It's not fair to change something in a job contract after someone accepted the job.
One in five people working in the UK works in public services. They are taxpayers too.
MYTH - Public service workers retire at 60.
The normal retirement age in many of the public service pension schemes is already 65.
Raising the retirement age hurts some people more than others. In general we're living longer, but that doesn't mean everyone will have the same quality of life.
Many public service workers have jobs that are physically demanding or stressful, making it difficult or even impossible to continue working into old age. Similarly many low paid workers simply don't have the option of retiring early because they can't afford it.'
'Pensions: busting the myths
MYTH - People are living longer which means they're claiming their pensions for longer - this needs to be addressed.
The schemes were revised to take account of this three years ago - so scheme benefits and costs are now 25% lower.
In addition, life expectancy has increased, but less so for manual workers and the low paid.
MYTH - There's a big public sector pensions deficit that has to be repaid.
There is no funding gap - the public sector schemes were assessed for long term risk and adjusted accordingly three years ago and are now very secure.
Both the local government pension scheme and NHS pension scheme are currently cash rich with income far exceeding outgoings - some £2 billion in the case of the NHS pension scheme.
MYTH - The proposals mean that those earning over £15,000 pay around 3% more each month - that's not very much is it?
3% of your pay is a significant chunk of income. Pension scheme members currently pay around 6% of their salary into their pensions - adding another 3% to this means increasing the payments by around half again.
The Local Government Association is even worried that this would lead public sector workers to opt out of pension schemes and threaten their affordability.
MYTH - Public services and public service pensions are causing the financial crisis.
It was the banking sector's reckless risk taking and excessive greed that caused this global recession.
MYTH - We're all in it together. Everyone has to make sacrifices right now - why not public sector workers?
We are all facing cuts to our public services - on top of this public service workers are facing unprecedented job cuts and a pay freeze. Is it fair to ask them to pay an average 3% more from their salaries on top of all that in return for a pension with worse benefits?
We will all end up paying more tax if people drop out of the scheme to end up relying on the state in their old age.
MYTH - It's not fair, why should the public sector get good pensions when the private sector doesn't?
The average director of a FTSE 100 company has a final salary pension worth £3.6m or £174,963 a year, while the average occupational pension generally is £9,500 a year and the average public service pension is £7,800 a year. That's the real unfairness.
UNISON thinks everyone deserves an adequate pension, including workers in the private sector. We should improve bad schemes rather than make good ones bad.
Providing adequate pensions means that fewer people will be receiving welfare handouts after retirement, which would cost the taxpayer more money in the long run.
MYTH - Public sector workers have it too good with huge pensions.
The average public service pension is around £7,800 a year, for women working in local government the average is £2,800 a year, while the median for women working in the NHS is £3,500 a year: hardly huge pensions.
Saving towards an occupational pension in many cases means a person is receiving fewer welfare benefits during retirement, saving the taxpayer money.
MYTH - Taxpayers are paying for public service workers' pensions. That's not fair.
Everyone's taxes are used to pay for all public services - stethoscopes in hospitals, the salaries of primary school teachers, people to change the light bulbs in street lamps, and part of these people's pay is their pension.
A pension is part of someone's salary package and is no different than an annual salary, a car, or the London weighting allowance. It's not fair to change something in a job contract after someone accepted the job.
One in five people working in the UK works in public services. They are taxpayers too.
MYTH - Public service workers retire at 60.
The normal retirement age in many of the public service pension schemes is already 65.
Raising the retirement age hurts some people more than others. In general we're living longer, but that doesn't mean everyone will have the same quality of life.
Many public service workers have jobs that are physically demanding or stressful, making it difficult or even impossible to continue working into old age. Similarly many low paid workers simply don't have the option of retiring early because they can't afford it.'
I'm a member of Unison, all be it that rare thing a Tory voting one. However some of the stuff they dropped in to the answers is propagandist crap. FTSE directors and Bankers are pretty much irrelevant to the issue at hand.
I suppose the tories are not peddling propagandist crap are they!
That simply reads as a one sided view of the situation and the bit about FTSE 100 directors does it no favours. We are not living 3 years ago, the situation is not the same, this governments view of what is acceptable expenditure is (thank god) slightly different to the previous ones.
Each side will present their argument in a way that accentuates their point of view however I am more like to side with the people that have access to the full picture and are trying to reduce our budget deficit.
Each side will present their argument in a way that accentuates their point of view however I am more like to side with the people that have access to the full picture and are trying to reduce our budget deficit.
technically speaking they are being targeted though, thats the point. The government have already targeted the entire tax paying population with increases in VAT, Fuel Levy and other taxation policies. They are likely in a position where they know that further increasing the tax burden will likely lead to either unruly behaviour (read as rioting) or simply being voted out of government at the next available opportunity by the tax paying electorate.
They still need to plug some holes in their finances so the next best place to swing the axe after raping the population at large is the public sector. Some of the larger unions are really not helping themselves though as through their militancy they in effect distance themselves from the public, eventually there is / will be a government crackdown. The public who feel slighted by the unions think this is a good thing and re-elect the incumbent government furthering their mandate to rape us a bit more.
I find myself agreeing with Amiga where I think he stated the government want this strike. I think he's spot on there as the government know the public will be up in arms and literally begging them to take the unions to the cleaners. Its pretty disingenuous on the unions part and pretty sneaky and underhand by the government on the other hand. I think it is what is referred to as political sabre rattling ? Everyone takes a black mamba in the bottom and the union chiefs and government brass quaff champagne in their boys clubs over the workforces broken backs ?
Don't get me wrong I have no love for most of the unions and the way they sometime behave. However the government is not innocent in this either and before it got to this both parties could have easily sat down and negotiated rather than using public sufferance as leverage to get their way.
That is not propaganda, its red herringitis, a tactic used by unions and governments alike to try and get you to take you eye off the ball !
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
The employees would be a good place to start I would have thought.
Same - Although I didn't vote Tory.
I've been a Unison member for years now and I haven't held them in high esteem for much of that time. The stuff they've been sending through to members is deliberately misleading and leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
I'll be leaving the union if they don't handle the pensions issue better than the previous issues and imo they're not off to a great start. I'll still be out on strike though as I think that as long as I am a member I have to show solidarity with those that voted to strike.
For the record, I don't deny that the pension system needs reformed but I do have issues with the way the government are implementing blanket reforms across the board when not all funds have been mismanaged and are going to fall short on their commitments.
The highlighted part......
thats all wrong, (unless its your way of saying you wanted a cheeky day off
). The fact that you feel you have to show solidarity even if you honestly feel that your issues are not being handled correctly by the unions ? That comes across marginally communist in that its all for one and one for all even if you don't subscribe to their points of view on something ?Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
Ooh, someone using the word "communist" as though it's some kind of evil. There's a surprise on these forums.
Oh, and another thing, I don't think you understand the definition of communism.
Or are you confusing communism with what has happened in China and the USSR - which was a failed attempt at implementing communism but which wasn't actually communism in essence.