30/11 Strikes.

[[TW]Fox]

In an ideal world its obviously cheaper for Anytown Council to run 10 bin lorries and 30 bin men than it is for Anytown Council to take the same amount of money they'd have used to run 10 bin lorries and 30 bin men and offer it out to tender between DolphTrash, FoxTrash and BioHazardTrash who'll then fight over who can offer the most for the least whilst having enough left over to pay the company director in dividends and impress the shareholders.

The fact that many councils do end up spending more than it costs to pay a profit motivated private organisation to deliver the same service isn't a reason to pay a private company instead, its a reason to sort whatever is going wrong at the council out.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Just to add that the state also owns and controls profit yielding at-arms-length entities.

Indeed - a good example of this is Ordanance Survey and BBC Worldwide.

 

[Dolph]

In an ideal world its obviously cheaper for Anytown Council to run 10 bin lorries and 30 bin men than it is for Anytown Council to take the same amount of money they'd have used to run 10 bin lorries and 30 bin men and offer it out to tender between DolphTrash, FoxTrash and BioHazardTrash who'll then fight over who can offer the most for the least whilst having enough left over to pay the company director in dividends and impress the shareholders.

The fact that many councils do end up spending more than it costs to pay a profit motivated private organisation to deliver the same service isn't a reason to pay a private company instead, its a reason to sort whatever is going wrong at the council out.

Where have I advocated council run tendering?

 

[uk_unbeliever]

The fact that many councils do end up spending more than it costs to pay a profit motivated private organisation to deliver the same service isn't a reason to pay a private company instead, its a reason to sort whatever is going wrong at the council out.

Unless the real motive is to eventually move to a position where 'consumers' buy directly and where only certain people (i.e. the better off) can afford it.

 

[MagicBoy]

Where have I advocated council run tendering?

Who should run the tendering then?

If they are not doing a good enough job then take it up with your elected representative.

 

[Castiel]

It has been stated previously that Government has had to borrow to pay wages. Most spending isn't ring fenced, trying to follow a £ through the system start to end is impossible.

You missing the point of what I was saying....I wasn't suggesting that x pays y....although you can no more allocate Deficit spending than I can Tax Revenue spending.

The original point being made to which I answered, to which you made your post was not specific either...he was talking about public sector spending as a whole, as was I. By the way you worded your post, you implied that public sector spending is funded by Deficit Borrowing, that simply isn't the full story or even representative of how the Government raises revenue overall.

Overall, public borrowing only makes up around a fifth of Government Spending and as I pointed out briefly the majority is made up from other, largely private sources.

 

[Dolph]

Who should run the tendering then?

If they are not doing a good enough job then take it up with your elected representative.

Where have I advocated tendering?

I advocate bottom up driven services, not top down, with the state ensuring access rather than providing services.

 

[uk_unbeliever]

Who should run the tendering then?

No one! the libertarian utopia is no taxes. full stop. those that can afford it buy the services they want direct. Everyone else? Tough luck.

edit- maybe very very low taxes only to ensure basic protection for those that can afford 'stuff' to not have their 'stuff' interfered with.

 

[MagicBoy]

Where have I advocated tendering?

I advocate bottom up driven services, not top down, with the state ensuring access rather than providing services.

So if I want someone to empty my bins I'm supposed to pick someone out of yellow pages?

 

[MagicBoy]

No one! the libertarian utopia is no taxes. full stop. those that can afford it buy the services they want direct. Everyone else? Tough luck.

Lovely. Who ensures public health then?

Street cleaning and emptying the bins isn't just because the council like things neat and tidy.

 

[Dolph]

No one! the libertarian utopia is no taxes. full stop. those that can afford it buy the services they want direct. Everyone else? Tough luck.

edit- maybe very very low taxes only to ensure basic protection for those that can afford 'stuff' to not have their 'stuff' interfered with.

Please find where I have advocated this?

 

[Castiel]

No one! the libertarian utopia is no taxes. full stop. those that can afford it buy the services they want direct. Everyone else? Tough luck.

edit- maybe very very low taxes only to ensure basic protection for those that can afford 'stuff' to not have their 'stuff' interfered with.

It isn't 'No Taxes', it is 'Voluntary Taxes'.......

 

[uk_unbeliever]

So if I want someone to empty my bins I'm supposed to pick someone out of yellow pages?

To be fair, in this libertatian ideal, you'd probably have a 'go to' chap, a broker of sorts that organises things for people. The real question is what about the people that can't afford things

 

[Dolph]

To be fair, in this libertatian ideal, you'd probably have a 'go to' chap, a broker of sorts that organises things for people. The real question is what about the people that can't afford things

Keep beating the strawman rather than actually addressing the points made.

 

[Dolph]

So if I want someone to empty my bins I'm supposed to pick someone out of yellow pages?

You could choose your provider, how you do that is up to you.

 

[deSade]

Where have I advocated tendering?

I advocate bottom up driven services, not top down, with the state ensuring access rather than providing services.

The trouble with this is that for 'essential' services - the ones we take for granted - companies will try to provide the bare minimum for the least overheads. When they decide the profit margin isn't good enough, they'll most probably walk away (or liquidate) - leaving the things you take for granted unattended until (at some point) another company comes in, and then........ (rinse and repeat).

There is no Dolph-esque utopia, and the sooner you realise this the better.

 

[borich_planner]

I'm going to work tom, and not striking. I work for a LPA

 

[uk_unbeliever]

Please find where I have advocated this?

I'm talking the libertarian extreme. In the same way you might brand others as socialists when they're not advocating socialism. I wasn't suggesting you were advocating the extremes.

 

[MagicBoy]

You could choose your provider, how you do that is up to you.

I'd rather the local council (or appropriate body) did that for me. They could charge me something called "Council Tax" that would pay for it.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Yes robbed by the previous labour government when Brown effectively performed a ninja raid on private pensions. Brown's decision in 1997, when he was Chancellor, to axe tax relief on dividends paid to pension funds has cost private occupational schemes £175billion. That is equivalent to around £16k to 17K per person.

Maybe if the private sector had gotten organised then maybe they might have been able to save thier pensions.

But no, they laid back and took it like they always do like the good corporate serfs they are.

And for what it's worth the Unions DID raise their objection at the time, but as the private sector as a whole refuses any form of Unionisation there wasn't an awful lot they could do about it.