30/11 Strikes.

nicktay2605 said:
For example, my aunt is a nurse. She believes she is poorly paid and poorly treated and has always felt that those in the private sector get a better deal.
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I used to date a girl who was a nurse and she was often asked by her mum to cover shifts at a private hospital. One days pay at the private hospital was equivalent to three at the state run hospital. So, in effect, those in the private sector where getting a much better deal.

As a firefighter, I am now in the fourth year of a pay freeze while my local MP has yet to see any.
 
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eddiemcgarrigle said:
I used to date a girl who was a nurse and she was often asked by her mum to cover shifts at a private hospital. One days pay at the private hospital was equivalent to three at the state run hospital. So, in effect, those in the private sector where getting a much better deal.
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Oh yeah I don't dispute that where there is a like-for-like job available in the private sector, they are likely to be better paid. My point really was that those working in the public sector are not necessarily poor by national standards, and shouldn't complain about their pension entitlements when there are people much worse off who are trying to keep themselves (and possibly others) going.

edit: also, it's unfortunately the case that people are paid based on the demand for their services, and the skill that goes into providing those services (the difficulty of the job in other words). I know many people hate bankers, politicians, solicitors etc, but they are all bloody hard jobs that are generally difficult to get into in the first place, require a lot of knowledge, a very good educational background, and have a lot of pressure on a daily basis. I think that, on the whole, people in these jobs deserve their salaries, so long as they are doing their job competently. If companies in this country didn't pay them well, they would certainly be offered excellent opportunities abroad. I do think that the bonuses that the city bankers, top chief executives and directors receive are obscene though. There is no way they need, or in some cases currently deserve, a six or seven figure bonus each year.
 
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the 1% very rich pay a lot already and even if they gave it all away, it wouldnt much help..

they need to cut things, they should stop the war, give less away to long term dole bums and find tax avoiders.

they should stop giving big contracts away to other countrys and start building things again in this country..


but everything ive said is what the government want to start doing, apart from maybe pulling out of the war..

you have to make 25k a year to just break even, anyone earning less takes more out of the country than they give back yet i think 25k is a good wage, seems not, people earning 40k and more are the ones paying for the country, their arent enough rich people to help the country out of debt and anyone on less than 25k take more.. their seems something very wrong in that..

i dont agree with the government taking poeples pensions to prop up tax even though i cant afford a pension i dont think that money should go anywhere but someones future fund if they're paying so much into it..
 
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Pension protesters call on Lib Dem Alexander to resign

A demonstration has taken place in the constituency of Lib Dem MP Danny Alexander in protest at the UK coalition’s plans to increase pension contributions from public sector workers.

An estimated 500 people marched on Mr Alexander’s constituency office in Inverness, with hundreds demanding his resignation by shouting “Danny, Danny, Danny – Out, Out, Out”.

Many protesters dressed as a "Danny the Robber" character with a Danny Alexander mask and a "Pensions Swag" bag, claimed that the Lib Dem MP was not representing the views of the people who elected him.

Calling for the Lib Dem MP to resign one protestor said: “We think it’s disgraceful our local MP is heading up a smash and grab raid on the pensions of hard-working public sector workers.”

The Inverness MP is Chancellor George Osborne’s right-hand man and is seen by many public sector workers as the architect of the controversial pension plans.

The march on the UK Treasury Chief’s office was part of many similar protests held throughout Scotland as almost 300,000 angry public sector workers took part in a one day national strike.

Other protests saw a letter handed in to the Shetland offices of Mr Alexander’s Lib Dem colleague Alistair Carmichael calling on him to change his mind over the UK coalition decision.

Protests took place throughout Scotland, from Shetland to the borders as staff demonstrated their anger at the plans to increase public sector pension contributions.

In Aberdeen, hundreds of workers staged a rally at the city’s Castlegate and in Dundee one thousand attended a similar gathering in City Square.

In Glasgow, police estimated more than 8000 people took part in the city centre protest. In Edinburgh 7000 protestors staged a march past the Scottish Parliament where MSPs, minus Labour and the Greens, debated a motion calling on the parliament to condemn the UK coalition’s plans.

One protestor said: “We’ve been asked to work longer - more years for less pay - it’s an atrocious deal”.

SNP Finance Secretary John Swinney said: "We have a long-term debate about the sustainability of pensions which I think is a fair and reasonable debate to have, but our prospects of resolving it satisfactorily have been contaminated by the short-term cash grab of the Treasury to increase people's contribution to their pensions."

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/inde...rotesters-call-on-lib-dem-alexander-to-resign
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;)
 
I dont know if this has been mentioned but Bluewater said they were about 7% busier than a normal Wednesday in November yesterday. Seems a whole bunch of folk just had a day off to go shopping rather than actually striking.

And can anyone fill me in on the details RE striking.

If you go on strike do you get paid?
If you don't go on strike, but the school you work in is shut because everyone else has, do you get paid?
If you don't get paid, how much money was saved yesterday by not having to pay wages to those on strike? (obviously there are other economic effects like people having to take a day off to look after kids etc but I'm just looking at wages saved)

Just wondered.
 
Todge said:
If you go on strike do you get paid?
No
If you don't go on strike, but the school you work in is shut because everyone else has, do you get paid?
Yes
If you don't get paid, how much money was saved yesterday by not having to pay wages to those on strike?
Well in the school i work at 2/3rds of the staff went on strike, so i guess whatever the wages of all of the staff, divided by 365 and two thirds of whatever that total is.

Just wondered.
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dirtydog said:
Deal with it. The rest of us are having to.
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The original deal was based on people dying at a certain age. That age is now inaccurate. So people have a choice to make:

A) Work longer in order to make more contributions and have a shorter retirement
B) Work the same length of time but make higher contributions
C) Work the same length of time and make the same contributions and accept a lower pension
D) Work the same length of time, make the same contributions, draw the same pension and then make sure they die at the originally assumed time
 
Rotty said:
"fair pensions for all"

"well more for for us than you obviously but we don't mind you paying for ours"
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Devils advocate:

Most of these people earn virtually nothing in low paid, low skilled positions and the pension they will receive is hardly huge. You sit on the internet with a Porsche parked outside telling them they are greedy because they can't afford to put up with the sub standard pension offering you can afford to tolerate. Most succesful people in the private sector who don't have a particularly good pension will have investments and other things for the future which are probably more effective than a pension anyway.

Most career bin men won't have this. The pension will be all they have. We pay these people not a huge amount of money to sweep our streets and take our crap away from our houses. I don't begrudge the money we pay in tax going towards making sure they dont live in poverty when they retire just because they have a better pension than I have in place. Why do you?

Disclaimer: Not neccesarily my viewpoint, but an interesting one all the same ;)
 
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Vonhelmet said:
The original deal was based on people dying at a certain age. That age is now inaccurate. So people have a choice to make:

A) Work longer in order to make more contributions and have a shorter retirement
B) Work the same length of time but make higher contributions
C) Work the same length of time and make the same contributions and accept a lower pension
D) Work the same length of time, make the same contributions, draw the same pension and then make sure they die at the originally assumed time
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Was trying to explain this to the missus last night. She just can't grasp that people living till their mid nineties instead of their eighties is financial suicide for the pension provider. They live too long and they end up taking out more than they paid in, which cost people money.

I am under no illusion (19 atm) that by they time is it close for my retirement I will be working till I'm in my mid 70's.

People living longer cannot be sustained in a system where people should be dying at about 72.
 
Vonhelmet said:
The original deal was based on people dying at a certain age. That age is now inaccurate. So people have a choice to make:

A) Work longer in order to make more contributions and have a shorter retirement
B) Work the same length of time but make higher contributions
C) Work the same length of time and make the same contributions and accept a lower pension
D) Work the same length of time, make the same contributions, draw the same pension and then make sure they die at the originally assumed time
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Yes. Or

E) Whine that life isn't fair, go on strike and demand the rest of us stump up the shortfall so they can continue as before. And you know what, they'll probably get it, I bet the government caves in. I mean the deal on the table was already more generous than it should have been.
 
[TW]Fox;20693548 said:
Devils advocate:

Most of these people earn virtually nothing in low paid, low skilled positions and the pension they will receive is hardly huge. You sit on the internet with a Porsche parked outside telling them they are greedy because they can't afford to put up with the sub standard pension offering you can afford to tolerate. Most succesful people in the private sector who don't have a particularly good pension will have investments and other things for the future which are probably more effective than a pension anyway.

Most career bin men won't have this. The pension will be all they have. We pay these people not a huge amount of money to sweep our streets and take our crap away from our houses. I don't begrudge the money we pay in tax going towards making sure they dont live in poverty when they retire just because they have a better pension than I have in place. Why do you?

Disclaimer: Not neccesarily my viewpoint, but an interesting one all the same ;)
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So people in low paid, low skilled private sector jobs with NO personal pension at all should pay for public sector pensions through their taxes?

No.
 
Of course, what I've missed in my analysis is that the people who are currently contributing are not the ones who need to die off. Do your bit - find a 75 year old public sector pensioner and bump them off.
 
dirtydog said:
So people in low paid, low skilled private sector jobs with NO personal pension at all should pay for public sector pensions through their taxes?

No.
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Are they getting a tax reduction as a result of all this then? Or does their bottom line remain the same whatever happens?
 
[TW]Fox;20693801 said:
Are they getting a tax reduction as a result of all this then? Or does their bottom line remain the same whatever happens?
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Their bottom line doesn't rise. It's the price of fiscal responsibility to actually at least try and balance the budget...
 
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