360 graphics

Pug · 18 Oct 2006 at 11:15

JUMPURS said:
Well the PS2 was last gen, didn't have any AA AFAIK, but 5 years ago it wasnt expected. Nowadays it should be assumed we do not have them. Surely there should be an improvement over the last gen in all aspects, including AA

yeah, it did. I was using AA on my PC at the time, and people were up in arms about its shimmering and jaggies. The problem it had was the buffer size or something made implementing AA a PITA. Its always available, it doesnt need hardware to pull it off, just not always (rarely is actually) free.

dirtydog · 18 Oct 2006 at 11:28

i-bert said:
Its amazing how many 360 threads dirtydog ends up in when he doesn't even own one.

It's lucky I don't need one to comment on general issues about it then

james.miller · 18 Oct 2006 at 11:29

I believe that advances in graphics should not mean having to make sacrifices elsewhere and that seems to be exactly what's happening. Yes there were titles on the ps2 where we saw sloppy coding, slowdown ect, you'd be crazy not to see this BUT, thats where it started. It was in no way on the same level as we're seeing with the xbox360. With the 360 we are finding just about every title released has problems of some sort and that IMO just isnt on.

I love the way caustic for instance, totally sidestepped dirtydog's comment about the original xbox have amazing launch titles.

And it also had plenty of games without 60 fps and stuttering. It is amazing how people already have those rose tinted glasses on.

he never said otherwise and besides - they were hardly high profile games were they? they proved time and time again that it was possible with the xobx, so why not the 360?

you want to talk about rose tinted glasses? how about the fact that before the 360 came alone, people one of the main reasons to choose a console over a pc was stutterless gameplay and robustness of the software? what happened to that ideal? it seems with every generation consoles are becoming more like pcs and with it bringing the disadvantages of pcs and it's those peopel with the rose tinted glasses who are turning the blind eye and ignoring it.

i-bert · 18 Oct 2006 at 11:47

dirtydog said:
It's lucky I don't need one to comment on general issues about it then

Do you go into the Motors forum and do the same about peoples cars?

dirtydog · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:05

i-bert said:
Do you go into the Motors forum and do the same about peoples cars?

I can make general points about cars yes

If someone gives the performance figures of their car for example, I don't need to own or have driven that car to voice an opinion on it.

If it was more specific things about that car which I would only possibly know by driving it, such as what the ride or the seats were like, then of course I would have no right to say anything because I wouldn't have a clue

i-bert · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:11

No the question was "do" you?

And do you think they would welocome you making comments about something which do don't even have any personal experience with?

dirtydog · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:13

I have plenty of personal experience of games consoles

Just as I have plenty of experience of cars. I can comment on both of them in general terms without needing to own the specific console or car in question.

Manlove is my forte · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:23

dirtydog said:
I can make general points about cars yes If someone gives the performance figures of their car for example, I don't need to own or have driven that car to voice an opinion on it.

If it was more specific things about that car which I would only possibly know by driving it, such as what the ride or the seats were like, then of course I would have no right to say anything because I wouldn't have a clue

So how can you comment on the graphics of the 360 seeing as you are not driving the console and you have not got real first hand experience with the issues.

It is true that most (maybe all) the 360s have shown some level of glitches. Graphics or otherwise. However this is not uncommon in all other games.

Halo2 for example you could grab object through the floor/wall you can throw a 6 foot solid flag pole vertically through a 2 foot window. you could bounce said flag 40 feet into the air off a conveyor belt. These are just some of the issues from one Xbox flagship game. (If I went into the glitches in the PS2 GTA games I would be here forever).

As games get bigger they demand more from the developers and the hardware. the people that created both are only human and are prone to mistakes. TBH I can forgive the odd glitch as long as it is not persistent or common. If I experience only one bit of slow down through the whole game then I am more than happy. If a jaggy occurs big deal, its only a game FFS. I am not going to pronounce a whole game as rubbish because a few things do not work as expected. This whole "Graphics must be perfect mantra" is BS imo.

The only reason people care is willy wagging tbh. "My games platform is 120xAA runs at a smooth 9,000,000 fps at 128000 by 720000p resolution and licks my nuts whilst I play"

dirtydog · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:29

Kronologic said:
So how can you comment on the graphics of the 360 seeing as you are not driving the console and you have not got real first hand experience with the issues.

Well I don't need to use a 360 myelf to know that it has issues because people such as yourself...

It is true that most (maybe all) the 360s have shown some level of glitches. Graphics or otherwise. However this is not uncommon in all other games.

...on this forum and elsewhere have told me so - and I assume that because you and they *do* have the console, they know what they're talking about

This whole "Graphics must be perfect mantra" is BS imo.

The only reason people care is willy wagging tbh. "My games platform is 120xAA runs at a smooth 9,000,000 fps at 128000 by 720000p resolution and licks my nuts whilst I play"

I would never say a game has to have 'perfect' graphics, but there is a certain minimum threshold which it seems some or maybe a lot of 360 games have been failing to reach. I don't doubt that this is nothing to do with the 360 hardware and everything to do with lazy developers rushing out games before they are fully optimised. Either way, I don't think it's good.

i-bert · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:30

dirtydog said:
I have plenty of personal experience of games consoles Just as I have plenty of experience of cars. I can comment on both of them in general terms without needing to own the specific console or car in question.

Again the question was "DO YOU"?

Manlove is my forte · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:36

Soo DD, in terms of what you are saying is if this was a court, everything you have ever talked about in this Forum regarding the 360 is in fact inadmissible as evidence because it is hearsay.

Its odd you often pick on PGR3 for frame rate and jaggies. Yet is it amongst the favourite games by people on these forums and world wide.

I also wonder how many of your 24k posts were arguments for the sake of arguing.

dirtydog · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:42

i-bert said:
Again the question was "DO YOU"?

Do you read my posts? I've answered your question which cannot be answered with a yes or no answer.

JUMPURS · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:42

is it me or has this thread just turned into a lets pick on DirtyDog because he doesn;t have a 360 and nobody really addressing any issues anymore

TBH DD doesnt need to own the console to coment on how the games look, he should have played the games to comment on the gameplay, but in the world of the internet (Which we know he has) there are plenty of game videos, screenshots etc.
Has anyone thought the reason he doesn't own one is down to all of these issues??

As for the driving anaology doesn't really fit, he can say for a fact a certain car can go 0-60 in 6 seconds, he could also comment if ferrari brough out a car that only done 100mph and said, paying 100 grand for a ferrari i would expect more than 100mph. Maybe he comes into the Console forum because he has an interest in consoles in general and wanders through any threads he sees? maybe he has no general interest in cars so doesn't go into the motors forum?

Think we should get back onto the graphics on the 360 and weather or not they are acceptable in this day and age, if we should be expecting more. People who say graphics dont matter are generally talking tosh, because they would have kept the original xbox or a PS2 and the only thing they tend to be able to say about GoW is 'OMG Look how pretty it is' because thats all anyone knows about it.

james.miller · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:42

certainly has - they havent even addressed my post.

Nismo · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:43

There's really no need to go over all this again, the 'argument' has been ongoing since the 360 came out.

dirtydog · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:44

Kronologic said:
Soo DD, in terms of what you are saying is if this was a court, everything you have ever talked about in this Forum regarding the 360 is in fact inadmissible as evidence because it is hearsay.

Its odd you often pick on PGR3 for frame rate and jaggies. Yet is it amongst the favourite games by people on these forums and world wide.

I also wonder how many of your 24k posts were arguments for the sake of arguing.

I have rarely if ever mentioned PGR3's jaggies, because that is more of a value judgement I'd say. Jaggies have never really bothered me on any console or the PC - where I have never had a powerful enough system to use AA/AF

Framerate on the other hand is more of a black/white issue.

How many of my posts were for argument for its own sake? None at all

JUMPURS · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:46

Nismo said:
There's really no need to go over all this again, the 'argument' has been ongoing since the 360 came out.

But now we are a year on, we are way past launch titles and first wave titles, we should have started to see the really great and defined ones now. I mean devs will have had dev kits available for what 2 and a half years now? but just arn't seeing the quality we should, and too much lazyness

james.miller said:
certainly has - they havent even addressed my post.

I know

~J~ · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:46

Nismo said:
There's really no need to go over all this again, the 'argument' has been ongoing since the 360 came out.

Yep, shame really it's been out nearly a year and it's still getting debated over. Move on folks, make love not argumentative posts.

dirtydog · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:48

~J~ said:
Yep, shame really it's been out nearly a year and it's still getting debated over. Move on folks, make love not argumentative posts.

I don't want to make love to Krono thank you very much :mad:

i-bert · 18 Oct 2006 at 12:48

dirtydog said:
I would never say a game has to have 'perfect' graphics, but there is a certain minimum threshold which it seems some or maybe a lot of 360 games have been failing to reach. I don't doubt that this is nothing to do with the 360 hardware and everything to do with lazy developers rushing out games before they are fully optimised. Either way, I don't think it's good.

I totaly agree,its the lazy developers that are to blame.I was furious when Motogp 06 came out because of the tearing and framerate drops,but its still a good game.

I can forgive the odd jaggy in TD:U because the fact i have a whole island to drive around makes up for it.

The fact is every game i love the most on the 360 are the ones that have all these problems everyone keeps going on about.