360-watchdog

[rp2000]

Do they have to be? I moan about famine in Africa, but i'm not going hungry.

Indeed. You don't have to affected by a problem to acknowledge it exists.

I have no figures at hand (indeed I doubt they are available at all). but 2/3 months into the 360 release there were many more broken units than currently with the PS3 or Wii. The news wouldn't be publicised if it was just a few dodgy consoles. But the 360 had more than the industry average (MS admitted this after initially denying this).


rp2000

 

[Joebob]

i then added it's not entirely M$ fault, as they don't make their own parts

Of course it's MS's fault. They are the ones who designed it and commisioned the suppliers etc so the buck stops with them. They should have had tighter controls and ensured more rigorous testing etc. It makes me wonder if they rushed it out to make sure they had market share before the PS3 and Wii launched?

Incidentally, what company is commissioned to build the 360's, anyone know? I know asustek build the PS3 so just curious as to who's got the contract with Microsoft.

It's definately not only launch units which are dying either as a mate of mine recently had his 9 month old unit replaced with a brand spanker and he called me this morning to tell me it died and he's taking it back for a refund!!!

I'm a bit worried now as my lad has just got himself a 360 and I dont want him to have to go through all this hassle. Also I managed to wangle myself a free one but at least I have my PS3 and Wii to play if it dies!

 

[vincent1989]

Of course it's MS's fault. They are the ones who designed it and commisioned the suppliers etc so the buck stops with them. They should have had tighter controls and ensured more rigorous testing etc. It makes me wonder if they rushed it out to make sure they had market share before the PS3 and Wii launched?

Incidentally, what company is commissioned to build the 360's, anyone know? I know asustek build the PS3 so just curious as to who's got the contract with Microsoft.

It's definately not only launch units which are dying either as a mate of mine recently had his 9 month old unit replaced with a brand spanker and he called me this morning to tell me it died and he's taking it back for a refund!!!

I'm a bit worried now as my lad has just got himself a 360 and I dont want him to have to go through all this hassle. Also I managed to wangle myself a free one but at least I have my PS3 and Wii to play if it dies!

to be honest not every part is tested, 1 or 2 parts from each batch are tested, if they come back as faulty then the whole batch will be dropped, or tested, if the 1 or 2 come back as fine, then the whole batch will be marked as OK. they will then ship it to the production factory to combine all the parts together, if it happens that there are faulty parts in the batch then they will get shipped anyway, this happens with with every product! therefore this is not M$ fault, they adhere to the guidelines and if things go wrong they are willing to put them right, and thats really what matters.

 

[Tunney]

i'm not trying to excuse them, i agree, there shouldn't be this many breakages, but i'm playing devils advocate in wondering how many threads there will be about broken wii's/PS3's in the next year and a half

The problems have been going on since the Xbox 360 was first released. This isn't a new problem and even Microsoft admitted to problems as early as November 2005.

I haven't heard of the same problems with the Wii or PS3. Both have been out for a while now (well, in some markets ) and, apart from the occassional horror story, their reliability seems much better.

I think the reason for certain people having 3 or 4 broken 360s is because the replacement machines being sent out are refurbs. Perhaps these machines aren't being fixed properly?

I'm just happy that my original 360 is still going strong.

 

[Syph]

I haven't bought a 360 as I just can't afford for it to break as soon as the warranty expires. I wouldn't buy anything if thought it would break a short while into it's life cycle.

Hopefully the reliability rates will creep up (to co-incide with a price drop - then I really couldn't resist...)

 

[TALON1973]

I honestly can't see the problem. You choose to risk this when you buy a product, that's why things such as extended warranties can be very valuable at times. If MS is willing to refund those who have had several iffy 360's then there is no problem.

extended warranties are for mugs . i've NEVER bought one even with high end equipment. biggest con ever and i just laugh when i see people being offered them in high street stores when buying pc's / tv's.

i expect my equipment to last more than 12months if its does'nt i just play wholey hell.

and as has been pointed out before in another thread somewhere :-

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page24700.html

for the lazy :- ( i draw your attention to point 6 of key facts )

Printer Friendly Version*
Fact Sheets

Sale of Goods Act Fact Sheet
URN No: 05/1730

Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.

Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

 

[warren_1979]

Having opened quite a few 360's lately, I do see plenty that are caked in dust, even units kept in ventilated conditions, in AV racks etc... and after 2-3 mins of use are physically hotter then a good clean unit.. since one of the common failure modes has been thermal cycling leading to a mechanical stress/fatigue failure of a track/joint, I can't help think this is a large contributing factor..

We should put some tites over the vents, that might work.

 

[Andy298]

I'm really on the fence with this one.

Sure there are a hell of a lot of 360's that have died within the first few months and a lot of people are on their 4th/5th console, which is absolutely ridiculous!!
But.... as a few people have stated, MS are replacing consoles in their warranty free of charge so I honestly don't see what Watchdog can achieve from this report?

Although it would be nice to get an explanation from MS as to why so many consoles seem to have failed within the first year. I'm hoping some MS rep will go on the show and explain this!

 

[da_mic_1530]

emailed watchdog this morning, shall be intresting to see what develops, seeing as ive been given the brush off by a retailer and MS, writing to trading standards some time this week

 

[JUMPURS]

I don't really see the problem, Microsoft replace/repair consoles that are within warranty.

But it is the duty of the shop you buy it from.
What if it breaks down and you can't get a replacement cos it is christmas and sold out.
What if you need to do a 30-40 mile round trip, you dont get covered for petrol money.
You don't get any compo for your time.
You need to keep your receipt (argueably you don't but it is 100x harder if you don't).
You could have a gaming night planned/clan match etc, turn on your console and its knackered
It could be your sole DVD player, can't use it. And you and buggered until you can get it replaced. which is when you can find time to take it back. or be without a console and DVD player for a week if you send it back to MS.
If you send it back to MS you need to get it picked up and delviered too by someone.

So it never is free of charge, if they covered all your costs then yeah its free, but it will cost you persoanlly something everytime you need a replacement. It isn't even a freephone number iirc.

If it was anything other than a 360 people would be raging about having to take it back all the time.
I know if my Samsung DVD player had to go back even twice in a year i would want a different brand. And if i knew people who had one and where going through them at a rate of somewhere between 1 and 5 a year i would stay clear.

if ocuk sold CPU's that died at least twice a year, would you still shop at ocuk? would you still buy that brand of CPU?

although i do say all this gently patting my launch day console

 

[da_mic_1530]

I don't really see the problem, Microsoft replace/repair consoles that are within warranty.

my problem is that the warranty for an item like this is extremelly short imo, im not paying another £70 for something that is now 2 weeks out of warranty, its carp

 

[Joebob]

...

Agree with everything you say there JUMPURS with the added thought that if your console is down for a month whilst being off repaired will MS give you an extra month on your Xbox Live subscription which you paid for?

I got mine all setup this morning and i have to say that I'm quite impressed with everything up until the time when I started playing Saints Row... OMG that DVD drive is LOOOUUUDDD!!! :| I know people have been saying it's loud and I have read it many times but jeeeez! Maybe it's the acoutsics where I have it in situ?

 

[wannabedamned]

wouldn't surprise me that a certain percentage that are moaning about failures are not even 360 owners.

This post caught my attention the most. So i'll reply to this one

Yes I am a complaining None Xbox 360 owner

Why? because i want a 360, But don't want to have a console that can die at the flip of a coin.

 

[McManicMan]

This post caught my attention the most. So i'll reply to this one

Yes I am a complaining None Xbox 360 owner

Why? because i want a 360, But don't want to have a console that can die at the flip of a coin.

of course thats your choice but whose to say it will die?, my launch console is fine, my other is now 5 months old and fine and i have 86 people on my friends list who are have been on it since around launch and most off theirs are fine, then there is local people i know and theirs are fine, so yours should be fine if you brought one, i know 3 people out of that lot which had had failures all exchanged by MS, so thats well within the %.

 

[G4AJG]

MADE IN CHINA = CRAP

Made in China, what do you expect.

I was told by a Jessop's shop assistance that, when the Chinese visiting the UK from China buy a camera here, the first thing they do when checking the potential purchase, is to check if it's made in Japan of not.

If made in Japan then they buy!


If they know the difference so should we!


(PS cool sig McManicMan)

 

[geordie10]

I started this thread and the only thing i would like to see is that microsoft tell the truth about the amount of failures and what are they doing about it.
I bought a 360 at launch and it bricked at 11 months and i got a new one from microsoft in 7 days which is not to bad.
The funny thing is some people who have had a lot of problems still say they would buy another one.
I had a ps2 which failed at 13 months and all sony would do was to repair it for £60.
They did not get the £60 as i got it repaired locally for £30.

 

[The Running Man]

I don't really see the problem, Microsoft replace/repair consoles that are within warranty.

and you think the life of a £300 item should be just 12 months?

the shops *should* have to deal with returns/replacements. However, MS should not be selling a console which has such a high % failure rate.

i dont have one myself, but a mate has had his replaced 2x and anothers locked up whilst i was playing Splinter Cell!

 

[Demon]

Made in China, what do you expect.

I was told by a Jessop's shop assistance that, when the Chinese visiting the UK from China buy a camera here, the first thing they do when checking the potential purchase, is to check if it's made in Japan of not.

If made in Japan then they buy!


If they know the difference so should we!


(PS cool sig McManicMan)

Thats such an old stereo-type!!!

The chinese are not like that at all, we have manufacturing facilities out in China, as well as Chinese engineers, and whilst I fully understand where that view comes from, it's just not that applicable anymore..

This debacle is due to a design issue, not because of the geographical location in which it was made..

 

[loxwood]

My launch console is still working fine but the failure rate does seem too high and if mine goes now I'm out of warranty. Would be nice if they did give another year or two of warranty to the early batches given I seem to be quite lucky.

Not sure a program like Watchdog will do anything though, from what I remember they're more into scaremongering than much else...not really watched it though so I may be wrong.

 

[fish99]

What annoys me about the 360 isn't that it was released with problems (bad enough in itself since it should have been tested better), it's that a year on they haven't fixed them, they're still putting out 360s that are just as likely to break as the launch ones. I also resent the money I paid for the extended warranty, although it's preferable to just having a 12 month warranty.

Microsoft do have a vested interest in keeping the 360 just as unreliable as ever since they sell an extended warranty themselves (got mine much cheaper through my retailer) and they make money repairing dead 360s that are out of warranty. Call me a cynic but isn't this the real reason they haven't sorted the problem out? Then there's the money they're going to make selling 360 V2 to a proportion of 360 V1 owners.

Interesting to read the sale of goods act that Talon posted. There it is in black and white, good should last 6 years and you can sue them for the cost of repair if they don't. How many people know this though?