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3800x vs 9900k

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews..._7_3700x_ryzen_9_3900x_x470_vs_x570_review/28








Metro exodus benchmark

9900k - 101FPS

3800x OC
Low (CPU test I would pick low) - 166FPS
Normal - 129FPS
High - 101FPS
Ultra - 84

Going higher its more about 2080 vs 2080 ti. Really at 2080 ti should beat me at every setting.

I used low on the benchmark.

Test system from the website.
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero
ASUS ROG X470 Crosshair VII Hero
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
G.Skill Trident Z 3600 MHz
Corsair MP500 M.2 - OS Drive
Aorus PCIE4 NVME - Storage Speed Tests
Nvidia RTX 2080Ti
Corsair HX1000i
Corsair H150i
Corsair ML Fans

My system
AMD Ryzen 7 3800x PBO auto OC +200MHz (PBO limits auto) Scalar x1
ASRock X570 Taichi
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
Team Group Inc. 8192 MB (DDR4-2400) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: TEAMGROUP-UD4-3600
(16-15-15-31-46-1 (tCAS-tRC-tRP-tRAS-tCS-tCR) 1899.6 MHz (DDR4-3800) Uncore: 1899.6 MHz)
Full custom water loop 360 rad and full copper block. push/pull fans.
Corsair AX1000

Looks like a stock 9900k does not do well in this game benchmark even with 4400MHz RAM.
 
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Mainboard
ASRock Z390 Taichi Ultimate - Review

Processor
Core i9 9900K (8c/16t) @ defaults - Review

Graphics Cards
GeForce RTX 2080 Super 8GB GDDR6 (NVIDIA Founder/reference edition)

Memory
32 GB (4x 8MB) 3200 MHz DDR4 (Cofee lake platform)
Power Supply Unit
1,200 Watts Platinum Certified Corsair AX1200i - Review

9900k stock with 3200MHz RAM
Ultra 1080p
Metro Exodus
86 FPS
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_rtx_2080_super_review,12.html


System Spec
  • Core i9 9900K
  • Z390 (ASRock Tachi Ultimate)
  • 16 GB DDR4 3200 MHz CL16
  • NVMe M.2. SSD WD Black

9900k stock with 3200MHz RAM
Ultra 1080p
Metro Exodus
79 FPS
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/metro_exodus_pc_graphics_performance_benchmarks,6.html
 
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This is interesting, I really had to look for a video with result I could compare too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIhLmWMnAgA

Test Bench: Intel 9900k Processor Overclocked to 5.0ghz All Cores No AVX Offset (1.27V)
Corsair H150i PRO 47.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (Fans @ 100%)
Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (16-18-18-36?)
Samsung 970 Evo 250 GB
M.2-2280 SSD (Boot)
Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB 2.5" SSD (Games)
Asus ROG Strix RTX 2080 OC Edition (GPU Boost Clock @ 1970MHz)
Corsair RMx 650W Power Supply Corsair 750D Airflow Edition Case

Benchmark Tool. Results:
Average Framerate (99th percentile): 64.45 Max.
Framerate (99th percentile): 93.17 Min.
Framerate (99th percentile): 38.37

Settings: DirectX: DX12 Resolution: 1920x1080p Quality: Ultra Texture Filtering: AF 16X Motion Blur: Normal Tesselation: Full Advanced PhysX: On Hairworks: On Ray Trace: Ultra DLSS: Off Shading Rate: 100%

Using 100% the same settings on my system.
AMD Ryzen 7 3800x PBO auto OC +200MHz (PBO limits auto) Scalar x1
ASRock X570 Taichi
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
Team Group Inc. 8192 MB (DDR4-2400) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: TEAMGROUP-UD4-3600
(16-15-15-31-46-1 (tCAS-tRC-tRP-tRAS-tCS-tCR) 1899.6 MHz (DDR4-3800) Uncore: 1899.6 MHz)
Full custom water loop 360 rad and full copper block. push/pull fans.
Corsair AX1000



Benchmark Tool. Results:
  • Average Framerate (99th percentile): 64.88
  • Max. Framerate (99th percentile): 89.26
  • Min. Framerate (99th percentile): 38.37
Options: Resolution: 1920 x 1080; DirectX: DirectX 12; Quality: Ultra; Texture filtering: AF 16X; Motion Blur: Normal; Tesselation: Full; Advanced PhysX: On; Ray Trace: Ultra; DLSS: Off; Hairworks: On; Shading Rate: 100;

Would appear to be equal or GPU limited.
 
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METRO REDUX BENCHMARK RESULTS Source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zf5i-fgTK8
Results: Average Framerate: 192.96
Max. Framerate: 349.41 (Frame: 27063)
Min. Framerate: 33.52 (Frame: 8) Settings:

Resolution: 1920x1080
Quality: Very High
SSAA: Off
Texture filtering: AF 16X
Motion Blur: Off
Tesselation: Very High
VSync: Off
Advanced PhysX: On

Test Bench:
Intel 9900k Processor Overclocked to 5.0ghz All Cores No AVX Offset (1.27V)
Corsair H150i PRO 47.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (Fans @ 100%)
Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Samsung 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 SSD (Boot)
Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB 2.5" SSD (Games)
Asus ROG Strix RTX 2080 OC Edition (GPU Boost Clock @ 1970MHz)
Corsair RMx 650W Power Supply
Corsair 750D Airflow Edition Case
Windows 10 Home Nvidia Driver 430.39

Using 100% the same settings on my system.
AMD Ryzen 7 3800x PBO auto OC +200MHz (PBO limits auto) Scalar x1
ASRock X570 Taichi
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
Team Group Inc. 8192 MB (DDR4-2400) - XMP 2.0 - P/N: TEAMGROUP-UD4-3600
(16-15-15-31-46-1 (tCAS-tRC-tRP-tRAS-tCS-tCR) 1899.6 MHz (DDR4-3800) Uncore: 1899.6 MHz)
Full custom water loop 360 rad and full copper block. push/pull fans.
Corsair AX1000

METRO REDUX BENCHMARK RESULTS
  • Average Framerate: 201.00
  • Max. Framerate: 379.94
  • Min. Framerate: 21.66


Could the 3800x be as fast as a 9900k @ 5GHz all cores?
 
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Increasing the minimum fps is better for the overall experience but in benchmarks the minimum can be a single frame. It's more the change in frame rate that gets me.
 
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I have found that RAM timing are what matter, IF increase does help but RAM timings as tight as possible are the way to get great performance out of Ryren 3000. 1866 ~ 1900 IF for me (3733 ~ 3800 RAM). Tighter RAM timings lead to better performance at 1866 IF which puts it about equal to 1900 IF RAM with tight timings. Getting RAM with as tight as timings as possible basically removes the need to overclock Ryren 3000 in any way. Overclocking the cores can still get you more but this is just a small increase. With good overclock 4.5GHz all cores and RAM timings I can get 11700 in time spy but the fastest RAM timings get me to 11500 points. In this way every could Ryzen 3800x can perform at approx. the same performance with a good cooler.

ABBA made IF 1900 unstable for me but reducing the SoC voltage from 1.050 to 1.040 so far fixes cracking with audio after running the V-Ray Benchmark and ends the reboots I was having. Too much SoC voltage can make SoC unstable. Hard drives start disappearing after realbench benchmarks and one or two applications can make IF unstable and cause audio to start cracking. This can even lead to restarts of the PC system.

The main priority for Ryzen 3800x CPU is to increase IF until you can reach a maximum IF that allows for the best possible tight RAM timings. Going above 1900 IF is very hard and not having a 1:1 between RAM and IF leads to big performance losses.

If you want to go to an IF of 1900, just remember that too much voltage can cause instability, as much as too little. There is not a need to pump lots of voltage into these chips. A good safe overclock can lead to great performance. Also pushing the RAM overclock gives the most in terms of performance, not core overclocking. This makes the 3800x very reliable for overclock performance, as RAM overclocking is very reliable. Each 3800x can reach 9900k 5GHz all cores (OC 3200 RAM) like performance in time spy but the 9900k can still pull ahead of a 3800x with even more expensive RAM giving massive boosts in performance. Basically the Ryzen 3000 by design hits a wall at approx. IF 1900 which means RAM running faster than 3800 causes high latency and low performance.

The the 3800x is better value for money than a 9900k, you will need to spend a lot more money on a 9900k build to have any chance of outperforming a safe overclocked 3800x. Buying a kit like https://www.gskill.com/community/15...Memory-Kit-for-AMD-Ryzen-3000-&-X570-Platform https://www.overclockers.co.uk/g.sk...channel-kit-f4-3600c16d-16gtzr-my-10l-gs.html https://www.overclockers.co.uk/g.sk...nnel-kit-f4-3600c16d-16gtzkw-my-102-gs.htmlor https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08q-tg.html should net you better performance than almost all 9900k systems (most people don't overclock and very few 9900k's have RAM faster than 3200).
 
It will take a lot of testing to make sure IF is stable. You can set it in bios. The issue I had was after updating to ABBA bios. V Ray is great for IF testing. If you run lots of V ray bench marks and listen to music you can see if there is cracking in audo. If there is then IF is unstable. I had no issues with anything else. Reducing SoC from 1.050 to 1.040 which software shows as 1.045 fix it. All the other test program like aida64 memtest86 showed no issues.

It''s just important that you can get the tightest timings you can. If that's at IF 1866 RAM 3733 then that will be close to IF1900. I get the same performance for both atm but use IF1900 and 3800 RAM because I have reduced voltage at that speed. It takes 1.4volts on the ram @if1900 but 1.45volt @if1866 for the same performance.

Benchmarks with PDO disabled. IF 1900 RAM 3800 vDRAM 1.4 IF voltage 1.040

Metro exodus benchmark Nvidia drivers physx CPU


Time spy - 11408
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/8796206

Metro redux - Nvidia drivers physx CPU


Memory speed test


V ray score


DRAM Calculator for Ryzen


r15 & r20





9900k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ0n9CkUkbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L54ppoyaTCQ
 
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Try with the default RAM speed of 2666 or even an overclock to 3200. See what happens and who wins. V ray is owned by the 9900k, it loves faster clocks.

That is also a 5.1GHz which is a very rare overclock for a 9900k. Also that 3600 RAM has tight timings, far tighter than mine. 3600 RAM for the 3800x is like 3200 RAM for the 9900k. The clocks speeds are worth less, than the RAM speeds.

Even so at 5.1GHz you are not that much faster. My scores are for a stock 3800x with better ram timings. 3600 RAM is the recommend RAM for the 3800x by AMD. It's what the reviews use.

That is a top 5% 9900k cpu, almost all 9900k's (95%) are worse than yours for performance. So that cannot be a indication of 9900k performance.

The same overclock for the 3800x is a all core 4.5GHz with tight RAM timings i.e cl14 @ 3800. That would destroy your setup completely at any clock speed in R15 and is just as rare as a 5.1GHz 9900k cpu.

I know this because I can run r15 at 4.5GHz all cores. For a start a 4.4Ghz all cores 3800x is well above 2300 in r15. 4.5GHz is above 2400.

r15 4.4GHz all core tight ram (not as tight timing wise as yours) vcore 1.325v (voltage picked because its safe)


All Ryzen 3000 cpus are far faster in r15 and r20. I don't need much more than 4.4GHz all cores to beat almost all 9900k's. 4.5GHz all cores is just unnecessary. The same way the 9900k wins in vray benchmark, amd win in Cinebench.
 
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Robert896r1 said:
If you're able to daily your 3800x at 4.5 all core, then yeah you certainly should! What's the point of buying a higher end sku and not running it to it's potential?

I posted my R20 score around 5500+ on here in the R20 thread.

I'm quite happy to recommend a 9900k to anyone who is willing to anyone with a relaxed budget but wants the absolute best 8 core/16 thread available today. The 3700x is my set and forget recommendation with a tighter budget.
Click to expand...

It's because with the 3800x I got things get very hot and you need a lot of vcore. I need to keep LLC at 3 and pick 1.45volts vcore. It droops into the safe zone vcore wise under heavy load.
 
Robert896r1 said:
Yeah gotta be careful on temps and volts. If you ever want anything tested on a 9900k just ping me. Mine is daily stable upto 5.2ghz. The only thing I don’t like messing with is ram because this board is horrible at training timings so I leave them alone now that they’re settled. But anything frequency related is fine.
Click to expand...

Just doing a real review of the 3800x were its overclocked correctly. It's never going to beat a 5GHz all core 9900k overclock with great RAM like 4000 CL14 but if the 9900k build is 3200 RAM with default timings, the 3800x has the performance. This is great for the price point.

The main weakness of the 3800x is that no matter what you do, you can't increase single thread performance, only multi thread. This allows the 9900k a performance lead in that area. Also because you will never see a 3800x above 4.5GHz all cores, there are limits to multi thread performance. The 9900k ultimately wins because with faster RAM and higher clocks because of better overclocking headroom both on ram and core clocks. It can pass the maximum limitations of the 3800x. Even so this is with very few 9900k builds.

All the reviews say that the 3800x has poor increase in performance over the 3700x. This is not true, with tightening the timing for the RAM and getting a kit rated at 3600. You can reach the performance of some 9900k 5GHz all core overclocked builds with 3200 RAM. At least in the games I have been able to test and in 3d mark. Let face it, the 3800x is not going to beat a correctly overclocked system like yours.

Not bad for a cpu that is approx. £390 on overclockers vs. a cpu that is £500 on overclockers.

Team Group Dark T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit £82.99
Intel Core i9-9900K 3.6GHz (Coffee Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - Retail £499.99
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master Intel Z390 (Socket 1151) DDR4 ATX Motherboard £264.95
Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360R Addressable RGB CPU Cooler - 360mm £149.99

Total: £997.92

AMD Ryzen 7 3800X Eight Core 4.5GHz (Socket AM4) Processor + Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML240R Addressable RGB CPU Cooler Bundle £489.94
Asrock X570 Taichi (AMD AM4) DDR4 X570 Chipset ATX Motherboard £308.99
Team Group 8Pack Edition 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit £164.99

Total: £963.92

What I am saying is that the above two builds are equal. If you overclock the 9900k to 5GHz and also tighten the RAM timings on the 3800x. Remember only 5% of 9900k's get 5GHz all cores and those that do required a 360 AIO minimum to keep temps under control. With the 3800x build because you only overclock with the RAM. There in no increase in temps over stock.

The default RAM for the 9900k is 2666MHz and for the 3800x 3200MHz (AMD recommends 3600 RAM which it gave reviewers). So both systems have overclocked RAM. Keeping the builds under £1000 gives the above two systems.

Note the 3800x build can get an older motherboard and reduce its cost further and still perform normally. I gave the 3800x build a more expensive motherboard to give the 9900k better RAM. Even so the 3800x build has a higher likelihood of overclocking better because RAM overclocking is more consistent.
 
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TrM said:
@zx128k
You really have gone into depth on this 3800x vs 9900k but I wanna ask with aggesa 1.0.0.4 coming and leaks all saying the major changes will you be restarting and looking into then as well?
I know there just leaks at the moment and I highly doubt the bios update would make any real changes but would be nice to know if it does help exp with single or low core count boosting
Click to expand...
100% will have too.
 
Robert896r1 said:
Good points overall. I'd just say that a master is pretty overkill and you can get something like this and be 100% for VRM's and 2 sticks of ram will tune like mine have 15-16/3600 which is ok. https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...cket-1151-ddr4-atx-motherboard-mb-57a-gi.html £169.99 * That's the same board and VRM designs as my Pro wifi board.

The Master has 2 more pcb layers, better vrm design, cooling and some XOC stuff (voltages available in bios). It does better at mem oc'ing but for cpu, hard to spot a difference.
Click to expand...

Same with the x570, it's a lot extra for PCIe 4 but most people could get cheaper. With AMD you could get a B450M Mortar MAX (Socket AM4) DDR4 mATX Motherboard for £92.99 you have support for a 3800x and 3800 RAM. https://asset.msi.com/pdf/main/global/presale_v2/B450M-MORTAR-MAX?

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/msi-300-400-series-max-motherboards-amd-ryzen-3000,news-61290.html

3900X tested on B450M Mortar. VRM 60c 12 cores on budget motherboard?!? (vs. X570 Taichi)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHHGya_DJwk

This would work just as well.
AMD Ryzen 7 3800X Eight Core 4.5GHz (Socket AM4) Processor £389.99
ML360R Addressable RGB CPU Cooler - 360mm £149.99 (overkill maybe)
B450M Mortar MAX (Socket AM4) DDR4 mATX Motherboard for £92.99
RAM speeds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYYKLl9lBYY
Team Group Xtreem " Edition" 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-36000C18 4500MHz Dual Channel Kit £289.99 (clock down and go for tightened timings @3800 or save money and overclock 3600 to 3800 and tighten timings)

Total: £922.96

Team Group Edition 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHz Dual Channel £109.99 (normal price £134.99)
Intel Core i9-9900K 3.6GHz (Coffee Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - Retail £499.99
Aorus Elite Intel Z390 £169.99
Memory overclocking could be limited to approx. 3866/VRM okay for the price. https://youtu.be/v5NDtS8za8g?t=1216
Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360R Addressable RGB CPU Cooler - 360mm £149.99 (cheaper than a full custom water loop but you may need one depending on the overclock and vcore)

Total £929.96

Userbench Full UFO
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/20725123
 
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Robert896r1 said:
Those are great builds for both systems. That b-die kit will easily run my settings on that board.

My tip would be to get the Alphacool LT360. I have one now. While it doesn't have the bling of RGB (one reason I bought it) with a cooper rad, it's got great performance. Save about 50 on each build also. Get under 900 on either.

Looking like there is a price discount on the 9900k at an easy to imagine place online.

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/20695517 the oc'd 2080ti is likely throwing the scores up a decent bit.
Click to expand...

Updated no funny lights
AMD Ryzen 7 3800X Eight Core 4.5GHz (Socket AM4) Processor £389.99
Alphacool LT360 £99.95
B450M Mortar MAX (Socket AM4) DDR4 mATX Motherboard for £92.99
RAM speeds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYYKLl9lBYY
Team Group Edition 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel £164.99
(Does 3800C16 because 8-pack blessed them in the Omnissiah's name with the litany of speed https://youtu.be/9gIMZ0WyY88)

Total: £747.92

Dark T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz £82.99
Intel Core i9-9900K 3.6GHz (Coffee Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - Retail £499.99
Aorus Elite Intel Z390 £169.99 https://youtu.be/v5NDtS8za8g?t=1216
Memory overclocking limit could be approx. 3866.
Alphacool LT360 £99.95

Total £852.92

Could be better to wait for the 9900ks and get that all core boost to 5GHz. Better than trying ones luck with the low percentage chance of getting a 5GHz all core overclock with the 9900k.
 
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Hilly said:
Been that long eh? I've always used Intel, but never had any bias to any manufacturer, I just choose what's right for me at that time. Same with GPUs.

I just think the 3900 / 3950 are the way to go right now, unless you play to wait for the 4x series.
Click to expand...

GIGABYTE AM4 Guide to Overclocking AMD 3rd Gen Ryzen™(Matisse)-Series Processors
https://www.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/Global/multimedia/2/file/548/988.pdf

ryzen_9_3950x_benchmarks_r15.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTgRaugBsRY
 
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