£400 card(s)

[Chrisoldinho]

Looking at the options for a £400 card(s), and i'm increasingly getting drawn towards a Crossfire / SLI setup.

I have a CF 6850 setup before, which for me worked flawlessly and scaled very well in most games.

I am thinking of getting 2 MSI 7850 Power OC Edition cards. I know reading performance comparisons that they would be roughly 20% faster than any single GPU currently on the market in most conditions, and bang for buck that's what I am looking for. Also reading various threads they can over clock to 7950 speeds with some voltage tweaking, which would further increase their advantage.

I've been bitten too many times by coil whine on the latest 7970 series cards, all 3 of my GPU's have done it and the latest one also randomly black screens and reboots for no apparent reason, the 680 series is affordable (just) at this price range, and offers only slightly slower performance with an upgrade path for the future but again I have heard numerous reports of coil whine.
I haven't been able to find any threads on 7850 coil whine, presumably because of the lower power draw / different components.

My question is, if I was set on a CF / SLI setup, for £400 what would you choose?
Second edited question - would you just go with a single 680?

Thanks,
Chris.

 

[Rusty0611]

If budget is maxed at £400 then I would get a 670 now and then add another when it shows its age. You don't need to go multi-GPU now as one 670 is more than enough unless you're gaming across 3 screens.

The problem with 7850 crossfire is always going to be drivers. You'll get a few vocal people who say that there's no problems with drivers but there are definite problems with AMD multi GPU drivers. It doesn't affect everyone but it can really cause problems. That said, 7850 crossfire is your best NOW option although I would read some stuff regarding drivers and stuff before you leap in. Also the drivers from what I've read are far better now than they have been. With this kind of thing you just have to make a judgement yourself. There's no hegonomy on this subject so it's never an agreed across the board thing.

nVidia SLI is far from perfect either though I personally feel it's more robust.

 

[brightside229]

I dont know about other people but i bought a 7970 for £330, and tbh i was and still am disapointed in the performance for the money, getting around 40fps in skyrim on max settings, allthough high enough for smooth gameplay not what i would expect from such a expensive card, and that is out of combat so not sure what it dips to with spells and other things being cast, but i would expect it to dip as low as 15-20fps as thats what a saw in a cave with water and fog

Coupled with a i5 3570k at 4.2ghz, 8gig ram i feel ripped off!

 

[Chrisoldinho]

I dont know about other people but i bought a 7970 for £330, and tbh i was and still am disapointed in the performance for the money, getting around 40fps in skyrim on max settings, allthough high enough for smooth gameplay not what i would expect from such a expensive card, and that is out of combat so not sure what it dips to with spells and other things being cast, but i would expect it to dip as low as 15-20fps as thats what a saw in a cave with water and fog

Coupled with a i5 3570k at 4.2ghz, 8gig ram i feel ripped off!

That feels unusually low, as even mine doesn't do that on max settings, but prehaps this requires a seperate thread to not thake this one OT.

 

[psychodil]

7850 crossfire is definitely faster than a 670/680, probably by about 20%. As rusty said you may run into problems with drivers, but you said you have already run 68xx crossfire with no problems. I think 7xxx crossfire is better than 6xxx crossfire from what I've read.

A 670/680/7970 will Max your games on a 1080p monitor, what is your resolution?

 

[Chrisoldinho]

If budget is maxed at £400 then I would get a 670 now and then add another when it shows its age. You don't need to go multi-GPU now as one 670 is more than enough unless you're gaming across 3 screens.

The problem with 7850 crossfire is always going to be drivers. You'll get a few vocal people who say that there's no problems with drivers but there are definite problems with AMD multi GPU drivers. It doesn't affect everyone but it can really cause problems. That said, 7850 crossfire is your best NOW option although I would read some stuff regarding drivers and stuff before you leap in. Also the drivers from what I've read are far better now than they have been. With this kind of thing you just have to make a judgement yourself. There's no hegonomy on this subject so it's never an agreed across the board thing.

nVidia SLI is far from perfect either though I personally feel it's more robust.

Thanks Rusty, I had looked at a 670, and could even pick up a 4GB version. The difficulty I have choosing this option however is that I know the 7970 can outperform this card comfortably now in most tests with the latest drivers, or a moderate overclock and the latest GHz version is on a par with a 680 (and beyond I believe).

The 7850's on the other hand, whilst limiting me to just 2 cards, offer the best performance now I think, beyond that of even the GHz versions. It limits me in the future but as I tend to upgrade every other generation, I am not sure how much impact this will have on me. I game at 1080p and currently have 1 display.

My heart tells me get the 7850's for the now performance, my head tells me to get a 670/7970 GHz edition for future proofing. The latter though is a tough decision given the constant issues I am having with this card.

 

[Chrisoldinho]

7850 crossfire is definitely faster than a 670/680, probably by about 20%. As rusty said you may run into problems with drivers, but you said you have already run 68xx crossfire with no problems. I think 7xxx crossfire is better than 6xxx crossfire from what I've read.

A 670/680/7970 will Max your games on a 1080p monitor, what is your resolution?

1080p 7970 doesn't struggle now to be honest, only game it dips below 60 ever is BF3 with everything on Ultra & 4x MSAA which is overkill for me anyway. It's the other issues I am having with this card, and the thought I can get more performance now for the same money elsewhere.

 

[psychodil]

Well at that Res the 7850 is your fastest bet right now. I would always go for a single GPU option if possible, and at only 1080p you can do that, although as you say, 7850 crossfire will give you better bang for buck than a single GPU solution. At your Res though, a 670/7970 will max all current games. What problems are you having with the 7970?

 

[Rusty0611]

Not really much point buying a 7970 GHz edition card. Price premium for a BIOS overclock only.

Performance maxed out is that of a 7970 maxed out, i.e. the same as a 680 also maxed out.

What about 7950 crossfire? One now and overclock the nuts off it and then another when they drop under £200. You don't have to get both cards now and with a 7950 you can get excellent 1080 performance while you wait for a price drop.

7950 is a nice card.

 

[HankScorpio]

That feels unusually low, as even mine doesn't do that on max settings, but prehaps this requires a seperate thread to not thake this one OT.

Yes, I paid 330 for a 7970 back in April, when they were £400+ and Skyrim doesn't dip below 59fps with hundreds of mods and ENB tweakers.

I'd also say to OP go for a single card rather than xfire atm. You'd get 20% more performance with 7850s now, but down the line you can add another 7950 or 670 when they drop in price and get another 90% performance.

 

[bemaniac]

7970 on skyrim gets over 60fps for me with the official HR textures and no mods with the best settings except AA

 

[tommybhoy]

The problem with 7850 crossfire is always going to be drivers. You'll get a few vocal people who say that there's no problems with drivers but there are definite problems with AMD multi GPU drivers. It doesn't affect everyone but it can really cause problems. That said, 7850 crossfire is your best NOW option although I would read some stuff regarding drivers and stuff before you leap in. Also the drivers from what I've read are far better now than they have been. With this kind of thing you just have to make a judgement yourself. There's no hegonomy on this subject so it's never an agreed across the board thing.

nVidia SLI is far from perfect either though I personally feel it's more robust.

I don't recall you mentioning having used CrossFire at all, if you haven't, then that's a bit harsh on AMD mate.

I've used both SLi/CrossFire and taking into account the advancement of the tech with scaling performance, both of them have been fine for me with minimal problems.

It's mostly the ones that have never used CrossFire being the ones that most vocal about the failings of the tech, as I said, if you haven't used it...

I have a CF 6850 setup before, which for me worked flawlessly and scaled very well in most games.

He's not a dual card virgin Rusty, he's had it before and knows how it works, he's half way there already, he'll be aware of the good and the not so good regarding scaling.

As I said in the other thread, you have only been on SLI for a fortnight, that doesn't give you a true feeling for SLi when a few AAA title haven't landed yet.

Give it time for new non Nvidia titles to arrive, maybe you'll approach advice differently, especially if you get a release day title that's lacking driver support, it happens to both of them from time to time.


I can't say I've seen many problem threads regarding 78 CrossFire(apart from the guy complaining about double the score in Heaven) either here Rusty, come to think of it I don't see proportionally more CrossFire problems here in the forum than SLi problems tbph.



@Chrisoldinho,

The only problem(if you can call it that) is how lucky you get with the OC on both gpu's, one might not go as high as the other in CrossFire causing instability problems even if they both clock well individually, going from personal experience.

 

[Rusty0611]

I had 5850 crossfire actually

All that text Tommy and my point still stands. AMD crossfire has a reputation of being a bit shaky. As I said in my first post it's by no means all people having issues so it's about taking a punt or not taking a punt.

Your point is noted but it doesn't invalidate mine. As I said there isn't a balance of opinion on the subject but I'm not going to back down on the point just because you're being rather verbose. You not having crossfire problems means nothing. Me not having SLI issues means nothing. It's about making an opinion based on the information you've got. You'd have to have selective eyesight or only browse the odd thread not to see the plethora of comments regarding AMD multi-GPU drivers.

I also don't accept the argument which you frequently put into the conversations about if you haven't tried crossfire/SLI you can't comment. It's not really a coherent statement in truth. Sorry

p.s. if you're going 3 screen or thinking about it and you have the choice I wouldn't recommend nVidia at the moment. The Surround implementation is pretty poor.

 

[spoffle]

The problem is people love to come with anecdotal evidence when these subjects come up, which never helps anyone.

Most people are simply unwilling to ever admit PEBKAC, and are also very very quick to blame "drivers" when they have no idea what the problem is. It happens all to easily.

For the vast majority of people, the graphics drivers will be something that is updated regularly, for example, whereas they are likely to not update other system drivers very often, if at all so it's of course an easy thing to lay blame on.

There's plenty of people saying the exact same about nVidia drivers. What does this tell you? That both groups are unreliable and shouldn't really be listened to.

AMD's driver reputation is very dependant on where you go on the internet, and the same strongly applies to nVidia too.

It's not exactly hard to portray nVidia as having awful drivers as well, anyone remember the few drivers they released that borked graphics cards, coincidently just as their new range was released?

There's plenty of places to look that makes them look like they have awful drivers, generally I disregard people's opinions who act like that, because from experience they always have some sort of agenda.

The truth is that 99% of people will have no issues driver wise whether they are using 1 or 2 nVidia or AMD GPUs, anyone who suggests otherwise isn't worth listening to.


As for what to actually get, I think Rusty's suggestion of a single 7950 now and a second later when they drop in price will be the most sensible option.

 

[psychodil]

Yep 7950 FTW! Over clock by 50% on the core like me and many others

I certainly believe nvidia had better drivers than AMD back in the 4xxx and 5xxx days, those cards had plenty of driver problems and I think the reputation has stuck since then. But I think the 6xxx and 7xxx drivers have been generally fine.

 

[spoffle]

Yep 7950 FTW! Over clock by 50% on the core like me and many others

I certainly believe nvidia had better drivers than AMD back in the 4xxx and 5xxx days, those cards had plenty of driver problems and I think the reputation has stuck since then. But I think the 6xxx and 7xxx drivers have been generally fine.

This "reputation" has been around for a lot longer than that. It's simply untrue now, and it was then.

This is what I don't get, like people will say things like that, but what about those nVidia drivers that physically damaged the graphics card to the point of not working any more?

Yes, it is very isolated, but people who make these claims about driver problems, very rarely know what they're actually talking about (no offence).

 

[LtMatt]

I've come from 6950 crossfire OP and it served me well with no problems. So i can recommend it.

However if you have £400 to spend in my opinion you will get a smoother gaming experience from a single 7970.

Just bought one myself and i have to say it does feel smoother than having a multi gpu setup.

EDIT

Re the talk about AMD drivers i can agree its all a load of bull. Never had any problems but then i don't go tweaking windows file and registry settings and i make sure to properly uninstall my drivers each time as well. Both sides have issues and that is something that will always happen. Pick the card you want based on performance and value, nothing else.

 

[spoffle]

Re the talk about AMD drivers i can agree its all a load of bull. Never had any problems but then i don't go tweaking windows file and registry settings and i make sure to properly uninstall my drivers each time as well. Both sides have issues and that is something that will always happen. Pick the card you want based on performance and value, nothing else.

Yet some how, this makes me AMD biased.

 

[andybird123]

I would be a little put off from buying £400 SLI/Crossfire now as it leaves no possibility to SLI / crossfire later - I'd save a little and spend £300~ on a single card now which leaves open the option to SLI / crossfire later

7850 crossfire won't be massively better than a single 7970/670, but 2 of those cards will be loads better then 7850 crossfire later on down the line

 

[tommybhoy]

I had 5850 crossfire actually

All that text Tommy and my point still stands. AMD crossfire has a reputation of being a bit shaky. As I said in my first post it's by no means all people having issues so it's about taking a punt or not taking a punt.

Your point is noted but it doesn't invalidate mine. As I said there isn't a balance of opinion on the subject but I'm not going to back down on the point just because you're being rather verbose. You not having crossfire problems means nothing. Me not having SLI issues means nothing. It's about making an opinion based on the information you've got. You'd have to have selective eyesight or only browse the odd thread not to see the plethora of comments regarding AMD multi-GPU drivers.

Fair enough and noted about the 5850's, however, after taking on board about my flavour of posting from certain members, I toned down certain elements of view recently, and although we can all talk about the other sides problems, maybe it's time to take on some of that good advice?

I also don't accept the argument which you frequently put into the conversations about if you haven't tried crossfire/SLI you can't comment. It's not really a coherent statement in truth. Sorry

I'm of the opposite, it's a very coherent statement, most of the negativity from dual setups does indeed come from those that have never used it.

I have used 2 SLi setups and 1 CrossFire setup, if it was as fundamentally as bad as some say, folks would never touch it, once bitten twice shy and all that.

I've replied to posts along the lines of:

'I plugged in another 7970, how do I know it's working?'

Fools rush in, but don't consider themselves fools when they don't have the slightest clue, it's always someone else's fault.

I'm well aware that there is problems, I'm not giving a blanket statement out that it's all good, whenever the subject comes up, I always inform users to do there homework as you can't just jump in and hope for the best, there is an element of work involved over time, which if your not interested or cba, then it can leave a very bad taste in the mouth...