£400 card(s)

[Rusty0611]

Re the talk about AMD drivers i can agree its all a load of bull. Never had any problems but then i don't go tweaking windows file and registry settings and i make sure to properly uninstall my drivers each time as well. Both sides have issues and that is something that will always happen. Pick the card you want based on performance and value, nothing else.

It's not bull - its good you had no problems but there are genuine issues around. How many of these are caused by incompetence of the end user is up for debate and impossible to truly quantify.

It's a touchy subject I know because a lot of people get on fine. But above (spoffle) saying that basically anyone who points out that AMD's drivers are potentially tetchy is not worth listening to... come on. Don't make a reasonable point from the otherside of the debate and then invalidate it by posting something like that. You just sound like a ****.

I'm happy to hear other opinions on the matter but at the end of the day it's down to the person buying to weigh everything up. I'm willing to admit that it's debateable. But it's not as clear cut as being made out from the pro AMD driver posters here.

I don't mean fanboy by this I have just grouped the opinion into a single term. No offence intended.

 

[LtMatt]

It's not bull - its good you had no problems but there are genuine issues around. How many of these are caused by incompetence of the end user is up for debate and impossible to truly quantify.

It's a touchy subject I know because a lot of people get on fine. But above (spoffle) saying that basically anyone who points out that AMD's drivers are potentially tetchy is not worth listening to... come on. Don't make a reasonable point from the otherside of the debate and then invalidate it by posting something like that. You just sound like a ****.

I'm happy to hear other opinions on the matter but at the end of the day it's down to the person buying to weigh everything up. I'm willing to admit that it's debateable. But it's not as clear cut as being made out from the pro AMD driver posters here.

I don't mean fanboy by this I have just grouped the opinion into a single term. No offence intended.

I'm just offering him a positive reason to go amd based on what ive found. I didn't read what spoffle wrote, that's nothing to do with me.

What i was trying to say (which maybe i didnt phrase well enough) was that despite all these claims that amd drivers are terrible and you should not buy an amd card because of them ive not found that to be the case. If you do things properly then in my experience you will have no problems whatsoever.

 

[psychodil]

I would say a relatively small percentage of gaming problems are from the drivers themselves, whether AMD or Nvidia. Most of the time they are PEBCAK, people using a sloppy install procedure, changing brands without cleaning registry etc. To actually say something is a driver problem it needs to be repeatable on a clean windows install IMO. AMD/nvidia cannot test all hardware/software configs so you will always get conflicts.

The trouble is people jump to conclusions and blame the drivers as it is an easy scapegoat. Like that guy who had a bluescreening 680 and problems with his 7970 as he didnt clean out the drivers properly, its far easier for people to blame the card/drivers than look at other factors such as their own incompetence.

I think most people who are fairly experienced with computers have very few problems with either nvidia or ati drivers in games (although trifire seems a different story).

 

[Space Monkey]

It's not bull - its good you had no problems but there are genuine issues around. How many of these are caused by incompetence of the end user is up for debate and impossible to truly quantify.

It's a touchy subject I know because a lot of people get on fine. But above (spoffle) saying that basically anyone who points out that AMD's drivers are potentially tetchy is not worth listening to... come on. Don't make a reasonable point from the otherside of the debate and then invalidate it by posting something like that. You just sound like a ****.

I'm happy to hear other opinions on the matter but at the end of the day it's down to the person buying to weigh everything up. I'm willing to admit that it's debateable. But it's not as clear cut as being made out from the pro AMD driver posters here.

I don't mean fanboy by this I have just grouped the opinion into a single term. No offence intended.

+1

 

[spoffle]

I would say a relatively small percentage of gaming problems are from the drivers themselves, whether AMD or Nvidia. Most of the time they are PEBCAK, people using a sloppy install procedure, changing brands without cleaning registry etc. To actually say something is a driver problem it needs to be repeatable on a clean windows install IMO. AMD/nvidia cannot test all hardware/software configs so you will always get conflicts.

The trouble is people jump to conclusions and blame the drivers as it is an easy scapegoat. Like that guy who had a bluescreening 680 and problems with his 7970 as he didnt clean out the drivers properly, its far easier for people to blame the card/drivers than look at other factors such as their own incompetence.

I think most people who are fairly experienced with computers have very few problems with either nvidia or ati drivers in games (although trifire seems a different story).

This is what I'm getting at. I'm not being pro AMD drivers, I'm being pro sensible.The reason you're seeing it as pro AMD is because smack talk about nvidia drivers isn't very common, as people seem pretend nvidia drivers don't have problems.

I'm saying disregard anyone's opinion who comes out and clinging on to the myth of awful AMD drivers, because anyone who knows what they're doing knows that most people have no problems, so it's not worth pointing out that there may be driver issues.

If we follow Rusty's logic, then we should also be warning people against nvidia in case they release another driver that permanently breaks the graphics card, right? Or are you happy to acknowledge that isn't representative of the general experience people have?

This is essentially what you (Rusty) are doing, but some how calling me out for saying it's rubbish.

 

[Chrisoldinho]

I would be a little put off from buying £400 SLI/Crossfire now as it leaves no possibility to SLI / crossfire later - I'd save a little and spend £300~ on a single card now which leaves open the option to SLI / crossfire later

7850 crossfire won't be massively better than a single 7970/670, but 2 of those cards will be loads better then 7850 crossfire later on down the line

This is what is plaguing my mind, the issue I have is every 7970 I have owned has had issues, i'm happy to look at Nvidia based GPU's but the premium they carry doesn't seem to justify itself in real world performance gains.

On balance, I am not getting another 7970, even though I have tested 2 of them in my brothers PC and both had the same issues in his I cannot help but think this setup just is not meant for my PC. That leads me to either a single GPU 670, probably a 4GB version for future proofing, or a CF 7850 setup.

The former is probably the more complete card, but will be a good 30% slower than a stock CF7850 setup, and it will be a good few years before I can justify spending another £200+ on another 670, and in that time a lot can happen, which leans me again towards a CF setup.

I'm leaning towards a CF setup, it worked well for me before and have confidence in it again.

 

[Chrisoldinho]

Did I lean enough towards a CF setup in that last post

 

[LtMatt]

Did I lean enough towards a CF setup in that last post

Crossfire was a good experience for me on the 6xxx series so why not? The thing you know with crossfire it scales beautifully.

If you dont want another 7970 then xfire is the way to go.

 

[Rusty0611]

If we follow Rusty's logic, then we should also be warning people against nvidia in case they release another driver that permanently breaks the graphics card, right? Or are you happy to acknowledge that isn't representative of the general experience people have?

This is essentially what you (Rusty) are doing, but some how calling me out for saying it's rubbish.

1) I never said don't get AMD crossfire
2) I recommended 7950 and then a second for crossfire
3) I balanced this by pointing out that AMD's drivers have a stigma for being poor in multi-GPU set up's

You come wading in like I've insulted your grand-mother.... Pipe down. You're completely missing the point.

I'm saying you have to make a judgement based on the probabilities. I've never said AMD drivers are always bad, I've never said they're mainly bad. I've just pointed out that there may be an issue there and to consider that point if you're going multi-GPU route.

 

[LtMatt]

1) I never said don't get AMD crossfire
2) I recommended 7950 and then a second for crossfire
3) I balanced this by pointing out that AMD's drivers have a stigma for being poor in multi-GPU set up's

You come wading in like I've insulted your grand-mother.... Pipe down. You're completely missing the point.

I'm saying you have to make a judgement based on the probabilities. I've never said AMD drivers are always bad, I've never said they're mainly bad. I've just pointed out that there may be an issue there and to consider that point if you're going multi-GPU route.

There also could be an issue with Nvidia drivers. So please bare that in mind as well.

Lol, sorry couldn't resist. Don't judge me Nvidia users.

 

[spoffle]

1) I never said don't get AMD crossfire
2) I recommended 7950 and then a second for crossfire
3) I balanced this by pointing out that AMD's drivers have a stigma for being poor in multi-GPU set up's

You come wading in like I've insulted your grand-mother.... Pipe down. You're completely missing the point.

I'm saying you have to make a judgement based on the probabilities. I've never said AMD drivers are always bad, I've never said they're mainly bad. I've just pointed out that there may be an issue there and to consider that point if you're going multi-GPU route.

1) I never said you did.

2) I know you did, I didn't refute it, I agreed with that suggestion.

3) Yes, I know but it's not worth pointing out, because they don't really have a stigma, and the logic you're using for claiming they do have a stigma applies to nVidia, as I said, if you want to use the examples you have to claim AMD drivers have a stigma, then the same applies to nVidia, for the few cases they've released a driver that has trashed graphics cards.

I'm refuting things you are saying, I'm not insulted I'm just pointing out that what you're saying isn't true.

As above, there's very little point in saying it, as the same applies to nVidia. It's not a legitimate "warning" or "point to consider" any more than it is for any other computer hardware. So my point is that what you're saying is misinformation.

There also could be an issue with Nvidia drivers. So please bare that in mind as well.

Lol, sorry couldn't resist. Don't judge me Nvidia users.

It's valid though, it's basically what he's saying. "AMD Drivers might have problems, so be wary of that". It goes without saying when buying anything computer related surely?

The fact is, most people who have issues with computers, do so as a result of PEBKAC. Most people are also completely against the notion that the problem was caused by their actions, ergo drivers get blamed.

 

[Chrisoldinho]

Crossfire was a good experience for me on the 6xxx series so why not? The thing you know with crossfire it scales beautifully.

If you dont want another 7970 then xfire is the way to go.

Thanks for the reassurance

 

[LtMatt]

Thanks for the reassurance

Just noting your specs though in your signature, i think your processor might hold back a 7970 yet alone 2.

 

[psychodil]

The fact is, most people who have issues with computers, do so as a result of PEBKAC. Most people are also completely against the notion that the problem was caused by their actions, ergo drivers get blamed.

I completely agree with this point.

 

[OptimaLnrg]

RE: nvidia drivers, I am currently on the 304.79 betas and SLI is broken in L4d (obviously didn't buy 680 sli for l4d, lol, but my mates have laptops so can't keep up game-wise, and sometimes ask for a l4d rumble). Sometimes works for l4d2. Probably hit and miss for the other source games but I haven't installed any yet.

By broken I mean that launching the game spazzes out the monitor and it tells me to use the dvi cable that came with it. So Every time they ask me to play I have to disable SLI and dedicate the 2nd card to physx (i.e. tell it to sit doing nothing).

Haven't bothered updating to the newer betas as I read people are having the control panel crash on them - I need it to enable and disable SLI lmao.

TBF They are beta drivers. We haven't had WHQL since may. Must be a lot of issues!

OT: Get a single card for now would be my suggestion. Less heat, less noise, no multi-gpu issues and annoyances of either flavour.

When the time comes you need more power you may be able to pick up a second cheap or, you may find it easier to sell a single card for an upgrade.

That is of course.. assuming you are running 1080p..

 

[Rusty0611]

3) Yes, I know but it's not worth pointing out, because they don't really have a stigma, and the logic you're using for claiming they do have a stigma applies to nVidia, as I said, if you want to use the examples you have to claim AMD drivers have a stigma, then the same applies to nVidia, for the few cases they've released a driver that has trashed graphics cards.

Only because you don't want to believe it. If you shout louder it isn't going to go away. Smoke... fire.... The fact you keep replying proves there's a stigma there lol. The more you reply the further it's reinforced.

I'm refuting things you are saying, I'm not insulted I'm just pointing out that what you're saying isn't true.

As above, there's very little point in saying it, as the same applies to nVidia. It's not a legitimate "warning" or "point to consider" any more than it is for any other computer hardware. So my point is that what you're saying is misinformation.

Indeed. Hence the point about balance of probabilities.

 

[spoffle]

Only because you don't want to believe it. If you shout louder it isn't going to go away. Smoke... fire....



As above, there's very little point in saying it, as the same applies to nVidia. It's not a legitimate "warning" or "point to consider" any more than it is for any other computer hardware. So my point is that what you're saying is misinformation.

Indeed. Hence the point about balance of probabilities.

Which completely negates any reason to even bring it up.

As the post above you, shall we use that as an example and claim people need to be wary of nVidia drivers based on that?

You've still not answered my question about those nVidia drivers that destroyed some graphics cards. Is it not as equally fair to use the same "warning" on that basis then?

 

[Chrisoldinho]

Just noting your specs though in your signature, i think your processor might hold back a 7970 yet alone 2.

 

[Rusty0611]

Which completely negates any reason to even bring it up.

As the post above you, shall we use that as an example and claim people need to be wary of nVidia drivers based on that?

You've still not answered my question about those nVidia drivers that destroyed some graphics cards. Is it not as equally fair to use the same "warning" on that basis then?

It doesn't negate it at all. In my view theres a higher probability to be on the receiving end of poor drivers from AMD. Your justification the other way doesn't stand up in my eyes just as mine doesn't in yours.

Terrible example but if it wasn't resolved then yes of course you should.

I've seen on these forums alone numerous people moving from 7*** series to 6** series due to drivers. They may be stupid as you say but they've moved and they're happy. There's been movements the other way as well. It's not a fool proof way of summarising but there is no proper way to calculate the probability.

 

[spoffle]

I've seen on these forums alone numerous people moving from 7*** series to 6** series due to drivers. They may be stupid as you say but they've moved and they're happy. There's been movements the other way as well. It's not a fool proof way of summarising but there is no proper way to calculate the probability.

And yet people have also moved from 6** to 7*** for the same reasons, but for some odd reason you're not counting that as being the same thing. Inconsistent logic is inconsistent.