40D upgrade...

munge · 3 Feb 2013 at 17:57

I'm looking to upgrade from my very reliable 40D and going full frame. I've been finding the auto focus struggling a bit of late, particularly in low light, lots of pictures just out of focus has been the stimulus. Took loads of pictures whilst chasing lemurs in Madagascar and a significant number were just not quite right, but not enough at the time that I could notice it in camera. I also need more weatherproofing, I've got away with it with my 40D

Looking at the 6D, it looks like a very good bit of kit, though I was disappointed at the lack of auto focus points. My 40D has 9 cross-type points, the 6D only 1 central cross and 10 normal ones. Is this as likely to hamper me as much as I suspect it would?

It is a shame because otherwise the 6D looks very good. I like the built in wifi, GPS is nice and it seems to take superb low light pictures. For the price, it looks a great deal but I'm worried about the lack of focus points.

As a result I'm probably going to go for the 5D Mark iii, even though its a bit heavier and more expensive. I do lots of wildlife and action photography and I think I'll suffer with the 6D.

Has anybody had any experience of both who could maybe talk me into saving myself a few hundred pounds?

theheyes · 3 Feb 2013 at 20:34

Are you really that bothered about full frame? If you're into wildlife and action photography then I'd be looking at the 7D personally, especially considering the savings.

An Exception · 3 Feb 2013 at 20:46

Id keep the 40d or get the 5d3 if you can afford it.
Don't expect every image to be magically in focus though.

dannyjo22 · 3 Feb 2013 at 20:46

munge said:
My 40D has 9 cross-type points, the 6D only 1 central cross and 10 normal ones. Is this as likely to hamper me as much as I suspect it would?

I really wouldn't worry about that too much, I tried the 6D and I have a 50D and the outer points kicked the backside out of my 50D for locking focus in lower light. Whether 10 is enough for you that's the real issue.

Go and try one, if you can find a store that actually lets you test one these days

munge · 3 Feb 2013 at 20:53

dannyjo22 said:
I really wouldn't worry about that too much, I tried the 6D and I have a 50D and the outer points kicked the backside out of my 50D for locking focus in lower light. Whether 10 is enough for you that's the real issue.

Go and try one, if you can find a store that actually lets you test one these days

That's part of the problem, it's an awful lot of money to spend without trying!

I want move on from the 40D, the focus just doesn't seem to cut it. And I need the weather sealing too, I think I've been lucky in not breaking my 40D so far, my holidays tend to involve humidity and dirt!

I had expected to be paying around £2k, so 5D iii is doable and my lenses will be fine with FF.

9designs2 · 4 Feb 2013 at 11:26

Do use matrix focusing or do you manually pick the focus point you want the camera to use... Struggling to see how you would get wildlife out of focus so often... Any samples of a failure to see what the issues is ? Do you have the same trouble when using the centre focus point only ?

mrk · 4 Feb 2013 at 15:21

Matrix focusing? What is this

The 40D has a very capable AF system. I've not had any issues with it really. The newer full frames offer more accurate AF and if you're mostly using a single AF point instead of multiple/zone then it's fairly easy to use the likes of the 6D. I've not checked but I'd also expect the centre AF point to be more sensitive in low light than the 40D as well.

munge · 4 Feb 2013 at 15:32

9designs2 said:
Do use matrix focusing or do you manually pick the focus point you want the camera to use... Struggling to see how you would get wildlife out of focus so often... Any samples of a failure to see what the issues is ? Do you have the same trouble when using the centre focus point only ?

Will try and put up couple of pictures later. Changed to the centre point to try and get it to focus, admittedly was not great lighting but even so I thought it would have been able to. But more disturbingly, I did notice that when I was in bright sunshine in Mexico recently, it wouldn't focus against the coastline - I ended up having to change to single point and One Shot as AI Focus or Servo just hunted and hunted.

I can understand why in dim light it might struggle, but the contrast between sky, land and sea should be enough to allow focus, surely?

munge · 4 Feb 2013 at 15:49

mrk said:
Matrix focusing? What is this

The 40D has a very capable AF system. I've not had any issues with it really. The newer full frames offer more accurate AF and if you're mostly using a single AF point instead of multiple/zone then it's fairly easy to use the likes of the 6D. I've not checked but I'd also expect the centre AF point to be more sensitive in low light than the 40D as well.

From reading around, it certainly looks like the centre point on the 6D is superb at focussing in poor lighting, perhaps better than the 5D Mk iii. However it does look like the camera is let down (am I being too harsh?) by the very simple and limited number of other focus points. Aside from the centre point, the rest of the 6D's points are horizontal only? I'm just worried that I'll end up with a camera that is otherwise great but won't allow me to focus adequately other than with the centre point, which is not always possible.

mrk · 4 Feb 2013 at 15:55

Focus + recompose is a part of the shooting process for many people in that situation really. On the 40D I used nothing but the centre AF point and simply focused then recomposed simply because the centre AF was strong on it. On the 5D3 though I have single point AF selected almost exclusively and manually select any of the 61 AF points and activate servo if needed via the DOF preview button (remapped).

It depends on how you adapt to the camera you choose to invest in really.

dannyjo22 · 4 Feb 2013 at 16:15

munge said:
From reading around, it certainly looks like the centre point on the 6D is superb at focussing in poor lighting, perhaps better than the 5D Mk iii. However it does look like the camera is let down (am I being too harsh?) by the very simple and limited number of other focus points. Aside from the centre point, the rest of the 6D's points are horizontal only? I'm just worried that I'll end up with a camera that is otherwise great but won't allow me to focus adequately other than with the centre point, which is not always possible.

That's because you are thinking that the 6D outer focus points will react with a similar degree of accuracy as your 40D. It won't, again I have a 50D and the outer points on the 6D picked up moving targets in lower light as well as my center point on my 50D. Will it rival the 5D3, of course not but again try before you buy.

It gets to the point where you have to give up reading pages and pages in magazines/internet and go real world test for yourself to see if equipment is right for you

D.P. · 4 Feb 2013 at 16:25

theheyes said:
Are you really that bothered about full frame? If you're into wildlife and action photography then I'd be looking at the 7D personally, especially considering the savings.

This is definitely a consideration I would highlight. The 7D image quality is not great but the rest of the body is very nice and if you are doing anything requiring reach the pixel density will help you a lot over 6D or 5Dmk3. Depending on what lenses you own now and what you shoot if you go full frame you might have to she'll out for so,etching like a sigma 120-300mm f2.8, canon 400mm f5.6. And really, you want 500mm on full frame with the ability to take a TC.

munge · 4 Feb 2013 at 16:27

dannyjo22 said:
That's because you are thinking that the 6D outer focus points will react with a similar degree of accuracy as your 40D. It won't, again I have a 50D and the outer points on the 6D picked up moving targets in lower light as well as my center point on my 50D. Will it rival the 5D3, of course not but again try before you buy.

It gets to the point where you have to give up reading pages and pages in magazines/internet and go real world test for yourself to see if equipment is right for you

That's where it gets difficult, as most places won't let you try a camera that you're about to spend 2K on, couldn't imagine buying a 2K car without taking it for a test drive first!

And re the above point about centre focus and having to recompose, I have found that it won't focus even on centre point sometimes, annoying when things are happening in front of you and I need to be able to point at the target and have it focus immediately. It did when I first bought it, so perhaps there is a defect in the autofocus system, but it is 5 years old now!

munge · 4 Feb 2013 at 16:35

DP, I'm basically wanting the best image quality I can, but without being able to justify the £4000 for the 1D X. All my lenses are EF, though I could see myself getting a longer telephoto in the future.

I guess a little of the problem is that I shoot lots of different things, from landscapes to action sports to wildlife, then I might be shooting for a friend's party. If it wasn't that I quite like the idea of the HD video facility of 6D/5DMk3 etc, then I'd probably go for a second hand 1DS Mk3 or similar. I was almost taken by the 6D, but I keep going back to the focus points. What would be perfect would be if I could try it for a few months.

If there is anybody who has a 6D and has noticed good or bad points about the focussing other than with the centre point, I'd like to hear.

Jimmy1983 · 4 Feb 2013 at 18:44

I've just upgraded from the 40D to the 7D, very happy so far. I did try the 6D but it doesn't feel as good as the 7D plus it doesnt have the joystick.

munge · 4 Feb 2013 at 18:47

Jimmy1983 said:
I've just upgraded from the 40D to the 7D, very happy so far. I did try the 6D but it doesn't feel as good as the 7D plus it doesnt have the joystick.

Aside from the joystick, how did it not feel so good?

Jimmy1983 · 4 Feb 2013 at 23:45

munge said:
Aside from the joystick, how did it not feel so good?

It was only a quick 2minute play. The buttons didnt feel as good in the hand. The layout is quite different aswell from memory-but thats only because the 40D and 7D are similar. Overall I felt the 7D suited my larger hands pretty well.

D.P. · 5 Feb 2013 at 00:55

munge said:
DP, I'm basically wanting the best image quality I can, but without being able to justify the £4000 for the 1D X. All my lenses are EF, though I could see myself getting a longer telephoto in the future.

I guess a little of the problem is that I shoot lots of different things, from landscapes to action sports to wildlife, then I might be shooting for a friend's party. If it wasn't that I quite like the idea of the HD video facility of 6D/5DMk3 etc, then I'd probably go for a second hand 1DS Mk3 or similar. I was almost taken by the 6D, but I keep going back to the focus points. What would be perfect would be if I could try it for a few months.

If there is anybody who has a 6D and has noticed good or bad points about the focussing other than with the centre point, I'd like to hear.

The 7D to me would be a better option for most of your shooting. For wildlife I think you would get better photos with a 7D than a 6D/5DMK3 given the same lenses. You will only gain an advantage with a FF camera if you buy longer lenses.

TBH, I am not sure the 6D should be a consideration due to the AF limitations if you are interested in sport, wildlife, parties. I would maybe consider the 7D as a cheap interim purchase, try to look second hand. Then in the future either the 5DMK3 will be way cheaper, Canon will have released a high res FF body with Pro AF like the D800, or you will have purchased a bigger lens for wildlife and cna make a better transition to FF.

munge · 5 Feb 2013 at 10:48

I'd rather spend a bit more now ie on the 5D than buy the 7D and wish I'd actually bought the 5D in a few months time. I've bought (I hesitate in this case to say) cheaper and regretted it and then struggled to justify buying what I should have bought originally.

I think I'm going to end up with the 5D, it's just a case of finding a decent price. It becomes that dilemma of second hand off the Bay, or a few hundred pounds more from a shop for the service and peace of mind!

9designs2 · 5 Feb 2013 at 11:37

Sounds like decided anyway, so struggling to see what the questions is..... Would still like to see some of these out of focus pictures, assuming the camera isn't broken I not convinced it not a technique issue.... Which will be present in any new camera.....
Going full frame could mean you need bigger/longer lenses for wildlife as you will loose the increase gained with crops sensors..... Something to factor into your budget.....