4k HDR TV selection - rather baffled!

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 15:37

Afternoon all,

So I'm in the market for a new TV, and started at a budget of around 400, but that rapidly climbed to the 600+ mark due to the fact that it'll last for a good few years, and there's nothing worse than a crap picture or shoddy interface on something like a TV. Max 50 inch screen, and it'll have to be wall mounted.

I'm between these two:

Sony Bravia KD49XD8088 https://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/sony/bravia-kd49xd8088/sony-kd49xd8088bu

LG 49UH770V http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/lg/49uh770v/lg-49uh770v

Reviews on both are mixed, with some saying the Sony has very poor black contrast (always grey) whilst the LG has issues upscaling non HD sources to 4k due to its processor.

What else is different between them that will actually make a difference? The HDR thing is basically daft as I don't have Netflix's ultra premium account, and even if I did, there seems to be basically nothing out there that will take advantage of HDR for the foreseeable future (I will never buy BluRay players or the like, only stream stuff).

Any other suggestions out there for alternatives?

Cheers,
Hugh

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 16:35

VincentHanna said:
Netflix Ultra premium already includes HDR content on shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Marco Polo etc.

You won't get great HDR on a low budget TV though.

Indeed, but I don't and won't be purchasing that Netflix upgrade as none of those shows is of interest. There may be more in future, but as you say, HDR at this price point is sort of pointless anyway!

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 16:48

VincentHanna said:
Have you considered buying 2nd hand?

Not really, due to the warranty issues with these sorts of things.

Not totally against the idea though.

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 17:02

Psycho Sonny said:
UH770V isn't a low budget TV

I should know I paid £800-£900 for a 43" UH750V about 6 months ago.

OP the LG has zero issues upscaling non 4k content. mine works flawlessly with everything. my only gripe with the tv is that it isn't larger it's one of the best tv's i have owned. however the max the wooden feature wall in my living room can accomodate is 43" so i have it on an articulated arm to pull it closer to me. 55" in the games room

Thank you for this Sonny. The whole 'budget' thing is pretty challenging to deal with, given everything looks budget compared to the OLEDs...! But these two certainly aren't the bottom end of the price bracket.

Have you had any issues with the vertical zone LED dimming? I realise you can switch it off, but it seems a shame to have that feature if it's just turned off.

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 21:59

eyetrip said:
I would say go for something with a va panel.

The Sony screen is ips and doesnt have great blacks. I have the 55 inch version (my first ips in many years) and its been a struggle to get used to.

Sure, it can still deliver a very pleasing image, but it can be distracting. I only bought mine with the intention of not having it for very long.

Have a look at lg 50uh635v. I had one very briefly and picture was decent. I would have kept it but it had a line of faulty pixels right across the screen.

The smaller 43xd80 is va and a nice screen - I use one for pc and gaming, occasionally streaming. This one will be with me a while.

Otherwise, maybe the Panasonic dx700 series, or Samsung ku6400 series.

Viewing angles aren't an issue for me, so VA seems potentially better. How do you tell what sort of panel they use? I can find nothing in any spec lists on the shopping sites that give that info.

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 22:24

sprite- said:
I'm a big time audio / visual nerd and I held off on 4K up until Boxing Day, where I picked up the Samsung UE55KS700 (HDR, 10 bit panel, 1000 bits etc).

I never saw the benefit of 4K, even when I demo'd it. I'd of happily paid for it if I could see a reason, i was even an early 3DTV adopter (god what a pointless excersize that was) ... Then I saw an 4K UHD Bluray on a mates Ultra HD Premiem certified set. Sold. Went out and got one.

4K on its own, absolutely. Really don't see the point. A Ultra HD Premium certified TV with a 10bit panel, 1000+ nits etc (low for OLED due to blacks), it's absolutely phenomenal. Even my wife was impressed, I have around 40 UHD Blurays now and The Grand Tour looks fantastic on Amazon.

If you're getting a 4K either hold off... Or up your budget for a proper HDR set. Anything else will just be a disappointment, I really don't think manufacturers should be allowed to advertsize HDR on their sets unless they're either Ultra HD Premium certified or meet the specs for it.

Is the LG 49UH770V not proper HDR?

Their blurb:

Super UHD with HDR Plus for stunning contrast levels
With their unique 'HDR Plus' technology, LG have pushed the abilities of 4K UHD resolution to the max. HDR (High Dynamic Range) Plus extends the range of colours for enhanced realism. It also delivers brighter whites and darker blacks, helping to give this TV stunning levels of contrast.

Dolby Vision for dramatic imaging
Dolby Vision optimises the HDR format to give quite simply the sharpest, most accurate images possible. Dolby vision-equipped TVs, like this LG, can decode both generic HDR content and content that's specifically been encoded in Dolby Vision - a leading format in Hollywood and cinemas. Dolby Vision also adjusts the picture to take full advantage of each display's characteristics and presents an optimized picture for each scene in specially mastered content.

SDR to HDR conversion - the best possible picture from Blu-ray
Another unique feature with LG's HDR Plus technology is the ability to convert SHD (Standard Dynamic Range) video to HDR for near-HDR quality from all your standard High Definition sources. This means that Blu-rays and other FHD content has greater realism, more depth and sharper detail than ever.

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 22:34

sprite- said:
In short. Yes and No.

It's got an 8 bit panel plus dither, basically like cheating your way to a 10 bit panel. Not the same.

I think the primary problem is any manufacturer can slam HDR on their set, yet not really give a HDR experience. Which is why the Ultra HD Premium certification came into play, that's not to say your TV needs to be certified (Sony have a 10bit / 1000 nits panel but didn't go for certification).

If you want HDR, actually want to buy a TV and go "Ah, that's why people rave about it". You'll need either a Ultra HD Premiem certified set or one that meets their specification. If you don't, you'll playing HDR content on a TV which doesn't have the colour range and will only pump out around 400nits peak brightness and wonder to yourself what the fuss is about.. As you don't see much difference and be pretty frustrated at yourself to buying it.

The little scrotes! You're quite right, just hunting around and LG themselves have stated it's 8 bit panel with dithering...How they can say it's that Dolby stuff (which I thought needed a 12 bit panel) is beyond me.

Basically I don't care about HDR then, as I'm not spending 1k on a telly. The fake HDR stuff just irks me greatly.

I just want a 40-50 inch 4k TV! I don't give a rats about the other stuff now.

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 22:36

Psycho Sonny said:
it's 8 bit with dither see my post above about what dithering is. it's basically a way of simulating 10 bit through processing or image manipulation but it's not true 10 bit.

the only 10 bit LCD LG make is this

LG 65UH950V

the UH950V range which starts at £2K

Cheers Sonny, just found that out. I find it incredibly frustrating that they just try and con you into thinking it's full blow HDR when it simply isn't.

I'm ignoring anything HDR related in the sales blurb now.

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 22:45

Psycho Sonny said:
Samsung UE49KS7000 - £850 is your best bet for 10 bit panel

that is what you get for the extra £200 over the LG

unfortunately the only 10 bit panel that will fit my living room is curved and therefore won't fit inside my enclosure in my feature wall (it has doors which close and hide the tv. so my only choice was the LG.

And I'm just not sure I need HDR as I'm not a film buff who will be buying into the proper Bluray gear for it etc. and by the time it's widespread in things like Netflix, Amazon etc. it'll likely be OLED time anyway. Maybe!

hughtrimble · 30 Jan 2017 at 22:47

Kenai said:
The Sony is IPS in 49" guise, VA in 43", I recently bought a 49" one after being happy with it in store, though haven't moved yet so I haven't got it out the box! I paid considerably less than the price you've linked though, i'd expect to see it cheaper again sooner or later?

(I paid £850 total for the 49" TV and HT-XT3 soundbase, which Richer Sounds are selling for £1000 combined)

Kenai, how do you tell whether the panel is VA or IPS? I can find nout in the tech specs for any of the TVs I've been looking at.

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 00:34

I'll be sitting 11ft from the screen...looking around that means 4k is a complete waste on a screen of this size, heck it'd have to be way, way larger to make a difference? To notice the additional resolution over even 720p, I'd need to be way closer than that.

This really is a minefield...

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 09:26

sprite- said:
So my screen is 55" and i sit 11ft from my TV. According to the charts on viewing distance, i'd need a 90" screen and above.

I would say it's pretty accurate, i do see some detail differences so it's not strictly "unnoticeable" but it's marginal and depends on the scene. It's a big reason i didn't upgrade till HDR hit its stride a bit, buying a TV purely for 4K unless you got a big screen you sit close to is relatively pointless. You should only upgrade if you need to, e.g: Your screen is broken. Or if you can afford a Ultra HD Premium set.

snip

Thank you for this, Sprite (and for all the other things you've posted!).

I currently don't have a TV, hence the drive to get one for viewing stuff not on my BenQ gaming monitor (horrible for non-game viewing)!

After all the posts last night, I went hunting for a decent 1080p circa 50incher, but honestly, the price difference between those and the 4k offerings left me thinking it was worth going 4k (currently booked to pick up the LG UH850V at £650). But like their 8-bit panel, I'm dithering about whether to go for the Samsung UE49KS7000 for £200 more...or just jacking it all in and posting a thread asking about the best 1080p smart TVs out there!

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 09:51

sprite- said:
No problem mate.

If you're going to spend £650 on a TV - i think you'd be better off going for something like a KS7000. I had a quick search for you, found it for £789 here. So £139 difference.

https://www.hificonfidential.co.uk/...ung-ue49ks7000-49-4k-quantum-dot-suhd-flat-tv

You're going to have a TV then you won't need to upgrade for a significant amount of time and all the enjoyment of a HDR experience for not that much more money.

If you're completely stuck at £650 odd, can't spend a penny more. I'd recommend the H55M7000 - it's pretty much the best non certified TV / not proper HDR. If you hunt around you can get it for £620 or so. If you need something at 49/50" - not sure, i'd have to have a look around.

I'd go for the KS7000 all day long though

Cheers again Sprite.

I'm not stuck at £650, just I started out looking at £400

This is getting rather like the budget for my PC when I first came on Overclockers a few years back (ballooned, but totally worth it now).

My issue with the hisense is the 55 inch screen as that's just too large for the wall it's going on.

Thank you also for the Hificonfidential Sammy link - I'm thinking the 6 year warranty + 10 year screen burn warranty with richersounds may be worth the extra £60 over Hificonfidential, as they charge an extra £60 for a five year warranty. I don't usually buy into that sort of thing, but with a big telly like this, it seems like it may be needed...but it could be their marketing just getting to me.

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 10:31

MG42Maniac said:
I've got the LG 49UH770V in our bedroom. I wall mounted it at the weekend. I think for what I paid for it (£650) it's a very good TV. I don't actually have it hooked up to a TV ariel at the moment, we're just using the built in apps, which are excellent. The TV has wireless .ac and I can confirm it takes a 60GB 4K stream without any buffering or transcoding needed by the server. I've watched a few episodes of The Grand Tour which looked superb. I don't get the obsession with brightness, to me it looked great and I don't see what extra brightness would really add. I've watched all previous episodes on my B6V downstairs and they obviously look better but I think for the money the UH770V is a solid purchase. The KS7000 is better but then there will be something better for a a bit more and you will repeat this cycle until you end up with an OLED!

Indeed! I was actually looking at 1080p OLEDs last night instead of 4k, but the price is still too high for me. I honestly don't think I'll notice, given I've nothing to compare them to.

I can find very little info on the difference between the UH770V and the UH850V. I'm guessing the higher number means 'better'/more recent, but it could simply be that it comes with a better stand, or something.

The spec sheets for both are so inconsistent - the 850V is stated as a 10-bit panel on Curry's website - not even '10-bit compatible' or '10-bit simulation' - straight up '10-bit'. But it isn't, if you read elsewhere.

sprite- said:
Definitely a good price but yes - there have been a few issues with build quality due to the glue they used. Most simply exchanged them till they got one that didn't. You're going to get some form of panel lottery with any TV you buy though, be it build quality, back-light uniformity etc. My one personally has been spotless.

That's part of what's drawing me to spend the little bit extra to get the RS warranty. Something going wrong with something like this just a couple of years down the line would royally **** me off

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 10:36

Cheers for those Sprite.

I misspoke when I said there was no difference between the UH770V and UH850V. The biggest difference seems to be the 2500 vs 2700 Picture Mastering Index (whatever that is) and the 850V has 3d (which I won't use), but the biggest difference seems to be that the 770V actually has 'ColorPrime Plus and Billion Rich Colors and Dynamic Color Enhancer' but the 850V doesn't! They all sound good things to me (they sound like typical jargon) but it seems odd the 850V doesn't have any of that.

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 10:51

beachBOYken said:
I read somewhere if the panel back is separated slightly you can push on it and it clicks back into place.

I can get it from JL for £789.

Is that with their long warranty? May I ask how you've managed to wangle that, e.g. is a public deal, or staff/family discount?

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 11:26

sprite- said:
John Lewis normally price match online sites, i'm assuming he got them to price match based on the deal i posted. Typically yeah, it'll include the warranty. RS sometimes do the same - ring them and tell them JL are price matching and ask if they will also. Find their sales stuff pretty helpful.

beachBOYken said:
No.

Find the cheapest price you can online and make sure they have high street shops as well.

Email JL and they will give you a personal price match. (There is a price match form you can fill in on JL site)

You pay full price at first but then they refund you the price difference after you have received your items.

Cheers both. I'm trying it with Richer Sounds as whilst they refused before on a different TV on the grounds of different warranty, there's one with included 5 year warranty and 10 year screen burn, vs RS's 6 year + 10 year screen burn. I'll report back.

hughtrimble · 31 Jan 2017 at 15:28

hughtrimble said:
Cheers both. I'm trying it with Richer Sounds as whilst they refused before on a different TV on the grounds of different warranty, there's one with included 5 year warranty and 10 year screen burn, vs RS's 6 year + 10 year screen burn. I'll report back.

Have gone for the Samsung KS7000 49-incher with Richer Sounds who have beaten this price here by a tenner:

http://www.electricaldiscountuk.co....0s2qalzA4H79LSz8M2iFIEhIzF7kXDi-X8aAoUb8P8HAQ

Looking forward to this!

hughtrimble · 1 Feb 2017 at 12:40

sprite- said:
Chuffed for you mate. You're going to love it. Definitely the right decision in my opinion. If you've got an Xbox One S get a good UHD Bluray, or alternatively if you have Amazon Prime Video check out The Grand Tour. The built in apps are great and very responsive:

I use the AVForums "Day" settings from the KS7500 settings review, it can be found on YouTube. They go through the Day settings after the Night ones.

Picked up Goodfellas on 4K UHD Bluray tonight, that's my Thursday night film sorted . Not a great example of a 4K bluray but I didn't own it on bluray so had to be done.

Cheers - it'll have to be Amazon as I've yet to return to consoles since the original Xbox (damn I miss those huge Duke controllers)! PS4 is on the cards for Red Dead Redemption 2 though...

Thank you for the settings recommendation. I realise I'll need to be playing with quite a lot of that stuff to get it all sorted for my preferences.

beachBOYken said:
Nice one, don't forget to post what you think of it on here.

I myself am still holding off for now.

Just noticed JL have bumped the price back up to £999, not sure why they keep doing that considering competitors still list it at around £849 and below.

They all keep jumping around on it, I assume just so they can then do an even bigger price drop and show it as a higher percentage drop on the advert.

The price I got it at is lower than the one you found and were going to go through John Lewis with? Try the price match with Richer Sounds - whilst I don't have experience with them other than buying this just yesterday, they do seem to have a good rep for warranty and general smooth-to-deal-with-ness.

hughtrimble · 3 Feb 2017 at 19:48

Got it up and running (incredibly easy to do) and went straight for the latest Grand Tour episode. Looked ludicrously clear - I think it's one of the very few times where I've sworn just because the image looked so good!

And then I realised it was showing as in 1080p not 4k...had a Google around, and there seem to be a lot of reported issues with Amazon streaming in 1080p and not 4k, with no means to force it to do so. Any tips?