5850 or 460?

Marine-RX179 · 13 Jul 2010 at 07:33

Tute said:
Good grief. The GTX460 is not as fast as an HD5850, please stop believing the people who have bought them and places like Guru3D.

Not just Guru 3D. Techspot's review pretty much confirmed that the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum (clock speed 800GHz) 1GB IS pretty much as fast as 5850, and £30 cheaper (£40-£50 cheaper if people buy the no factory overclocked GTX460) as well as having Physx.
http://www.techspot.com/review/299-palit-inno3d-geforce-gtx-460/page6.html

One might argue that the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum (clock speed 800GHz) 1GB is only around the same speed as stock 5850 because of it being factory overclocked from 675GHz to 800GHz, and 5850 would pull ahead once it is overclocked. But the thing is that the GTX460 can still overclock further even if it's pre-overclocked to 800GHz...and I recall seeing in one of the review that the GTX460 can be overlocked to around 960GHz.

straxusii · 13 Jul 2010 at 08:01

I wouldnt go 460 over 5850 unless you are talking the sonic plat. And wait for the ATI price reduction, smells imminent to me

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2010 at 08:45

...and I recall seeing in one of the review that the GTX460 can be overlocked to around 960GHz.

NO.

lets get this right.

from the reviews ONLY the 768MB mem versions have i seen the core get above 900.

for the 1GB version i have not seen the core get above 850.

and that was only the asus one with voltage tweaking;

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3810/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-part-2-the-vendor-cards/7

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-review/25

so most 460's aint gonna getg over 850 core but some might. those with voltage tweak options can go further.

jorzeh · 13 Jul 2010 at 08:59

opethdisciple said:
But how can a little dinky card like that have enough grunt to run physx as well?

I think people forget that it places extra tax on the gpu.

Dont get me wrong, Iv seen the benchmarks, and its very impressive for price, bu to expect it to run physx as well, is to ask too much.

i'm going to get two of them tho and oc them alittle more so it should handle it ok... may even wait till 485 is out or ATI refresh.

ooEy · 13 Jul 2010 at 09:03

Get a 5850 and clock her as close to 1000/1250 as you can.

Marine-RX179 · 13 Jul 2010 at 10:25

Speaking of 5850...ain't the later released (or current) with non-reference PCB has difficulty overvolting?

I got nothing against 5850, but I really think they shoud at least drop back to £200 which was the launch price. One thing I dislike about 5850 and 5870...well, may be I should say ATI to be precise is they raised the price by around £30-£50 after launch because there was no competition. From business point of view it make sense, but from consumer point of view that's seem to be a bit of rip off...

I think the important thing is not whether which is faster by a couple of frames, but if it is enough to meet the need of users.

Both the 5850 and the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum would be more than enough for gaming at 1920x1200 (except a few odd games such as Crysis and Metro 2033). Features wise, 5850 got Eyefinity, Crossfire and that's about it; GTX460 on the other hand would have Physx, CUDA, 3D gaming and folding ability, as well as SLI (which we all know scale better than Crossfire).

As it currently stand (mainly the price), the 5850 is not really worth considering, unless they will slash the price back down to their launch price. Buyers have been ripped off long enough, and it's about time that the 5850 should again be sold at the price that they were meant at at the first place.

opethdisciple · 13 Jul 2010 at 11:08

Marine-RX179 said:
Speaking of 5850...ain't the later released (or current) with non-reference PCB has difficulty overvolting?

I got nothing against 5850, but I really think they shoud at least drop back to £200 which was the launch price. One thing I dislike about 5850 and 5870...well, may be I should say ATI to be precise is they raised the price by around £30-£50 after launch because there was no competition. From business point of view it make sense, but from consumer point of view that's seem to be a bit of rip off...

I think the important thing is not whether which is faster by a couple of frames, but if it is enough to meet the need of users.

Both the 5850 and the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum would be more than enough for gaming at 1920x1200 (except a few odd games such as Crysis and Metro 2033). Features wise, 5850 got Eyefinity, Crossfire and that's about it; GTX460 on the other hand would have Physx, CUDA, 3D gaming and folding ability, as well as SLI (which we all know scale better than Crossfire).

As it currently stand (mainly the price), the 5850 is not really worth considering, unless they will slash the price back down to their launch price. Buyers have been ripped off long enough, and it's about time that the 5850 should again be sold at the price that they were meant at at the first place.

I agree with you. However, I think its the 5870 that is way over priced in their gpu line up.

dbmzk1 · 13 Jul 2010 at 12:10

Thanks for the help guys. I've ordered 5850 (Asus) and my mate has ordered a 460 so we will be able to compare directly which could be fun.

As I asked before, would I be able to run my 8800GTS alongside it for Physx under Windows 7? If I can, would it even be worth it?

Marine-RX179 · 13 Jul 2010 at 12:17

dbmzk1 said:
Thanks for the help guys. I've ordered 5850 (Asus) and my mate has ordered a 460 so we will be able to compare directly which could be fun.

As I asked before, would I be able to run my 8800GTS alongside it for Physx under Windows 7? If I can, would it even be worth it?

Which 460 your mate ordered?

As for using the 8800GTS alongside with the 5850, you won't be able to do in in normal circumstances. But there was a leaked driver a while ago, that would allow you to use Nvidia cards as Physx card alongside an ATI card.

As for worth it or not, it pretty much depends how much Physx games you play.

OzZie · 13 Jul 2010 at 12:23

iirc, a few weeks ago, Nvidia allowed the use of ATi cards with Nvidia Physx cards to work together without having any other hacked drivers or such.

I tried my old 8800GTS with my HD5830 and installed standard drivers for each and had it working without any problems. The extra heat from the 8800GTS wasn't worth it in the end so i ended up not bothering.

dbmzk1 · 13 Jul 2010 at 12:27

Interesting thanks for that, guess it's something I can have a play with

My mate ordered the standard Palit 1gb version.

tommybhoy · 13 Jul 2010 at 12:39

dbmzk1 said:
As I asked before, would I be able to run my 8800GTS alongside it for Physx under Windows 7?

You can use the 257.21 GeForce driver and use the file from here to make it work: http://physxinfo.com/news/3334/new-hybrid-physx-mod-1-04ff-is-out/

physxinfo updates the files for each new driver nvidia brings out.

dbmzk1 said:
If I can, would it even be worth it?

The only way to find out is if you try it.

On another note, Mafia 2 specs recommend using a dedicated gpu for phys-x, so will the 460 be enough to play the game with phys-x? We shall have to wait and see.

Tute · 13 Jul 2010 at 12:50

Marine-RX179 said:
Not just Guru 3D. Techspot's review pretty much confirmed that the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum (clock speed 800GHz) 1GB IS pretty much as fast as 5850, and £30 cheaper (£40-£50 cheaper if people buy the no factory overclocked GTX460) as well as having Physx.
http://www.techspot.com/review/299-palit-inno3d-geforce-gtx-460/page6.html

One might argue that the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum (clock speed 800GHz) 1GB is only around the same speed as stock 5850 because of it being factory overclocked from 675GHz to 800GHz, and 5850 would pull ahead once it is overclocked. But the thing is that the GTX460 can still overclock further even if it's pre-overclocked to 800GHz...and I recall seeing in one of the review that the GTX460 can be overlocked to around 960GHz.

No, it's not.

Read Anandtech's review - in Crysis the 460 has the same minimum frames, but the HD5850 is faster. In Battleforge Dx10 the GTX460 is slower, with the gap growing as you increase resolution. In Dx11 the gap is smaller, but again grows with the resolution. In HAWX the 460 starts quicker but falls away with resolution. L4D is no comparison really. In BC2 the HD5850 is again a fair bit quicker except with one bench at a high resolution. In STALKER the HD5850 is again far ahead. DIRT2 is where the GTX460 really gives the HD5850 a run, and is level, but at the highest resolutions it again falls away. ME2 is again close but the HD5850 edges it. Woldenstein sees the HD5850 open a sizable gap.

You cannot claim that it's "as fast" because it's the same speed in certain, cherry picked benchmarks. The GTX460 sits smack bang in between the HD5830 and HD5850, end of.

tommybhoy · 13 Jul 2010 at 12:57

Tute said:
The GTX460 sits smack bang in between the HD5830 and HD5850

I would agree there.
I would also imagine it's a matter of time till both the 5850 + 30 are reduced in price too.

p0rks0da · 13 Jul 2010 at 13:02

Tute said:
No, it's not.

Read Anandtech's review - in Crysis the 460 has the same minimum frames, but the HD5850 is faster. In Battleforge Dx10 the GTX460 is slower, with the gap growing as you increase resolution. In Dx11 the gap is smaller, but again grows with the resolution. In HAWX the 460 starts quicker but falls away with resolution. L4D is no comparison really. In BC2 the HD5850 is again a fair bit quicker except with one bench at a high resolution. In STALKER the HD5850 is again far ahead. DIRT2 is where the GTX460 really gives the HD5850 a run, and is level, but at the highest resolutions it again falls away. ME2 is again close but the HD5850 edges it. Woldenstein sees the HD5850 open a sizable gap.

You cannot claim that it's "as fast" because it's the same speed in certain, cherry picked benchmarks. The GTX460 sits smack bang in between the HD5830 and HD5850, end of.

You do realise that Anandtech didn't even review the card he is talking about? They reviewed the GTX460 1GB at stock 675 clocks...

Marine-RX179 · 13 Jul 2010 at 14:00

p0rks0da said:
You do realise that Anandtech didn't even review the card he is talking about? They reviewed the GTX460 1GB at stock 675 clocks...

I clearly stated the clock speed of the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum 1GB is 800MHz and even put the link to the techspot reviews (which he clearly ignored), and he go and talk about another GTX 460 1GB clock speed at 675MHz...amazing :eek:

Can't say I blame him...if I got a 5850 like him, I would feel threaten too, or be gutted that a £30 cheaper card performing not only close to my 5850, but offer much more features as well.

Tute · 13 Jul 2010 at 15:35

[Edit] No actually, I won't bite.

No, actually, I will.

I don't see anywhere i've even mentioned overclocked cards. I've simply stated that the GTX460 is somewhere between the HD5830 and HD5850 in performance, which it is. If you want to compare overclocked parts, then you'll need to compare it to an HD5850 at 1GHz, which opens the gap up again.

The last half of your post really confirms what an utter worthless troll you are. I bought this card at the time because it was as fast as I could go in a Sugo SG05. I'd have loved to get a GTX470/480 in there, or even an HD5870. But beyond the Fermi offerings cooking the inside of my case, I doubt the 300W PSU would have coped either. But I guess you're too narrow minded to bother considering that.

Congratulations on being the only person on my ignore list. I reserve it for only the worst posters.

The Running Man · 13 Jul 2010 at 16:14

trust me a 5850 at stock in many applications is better than an 800\2000 GTX 460.

overclock the 5850 by some and it will be much better.

and im an nvidia fanboy. in some review i have seen the GTX 275 out perform the GTX 460 OC... and trust me the GTX 275 does not out perform the 5850.

p0rks0da · 13 Jul 2010 at 16:42

Tute said:
I don't see anywhere i've even mentioned overclocked cards. I've simply stated that the GTX460 is somewhere between the HD5830 and HD5850 in performance, which it is. If you want to compare overclocked parts, then you'll need to compare it to an HD5850 at 1GHz, which opens the gap up again.

The thing is you quoted him where he is clearly talking about the 800mhz Palit part, he mentions it specifically by name. Nobody is arguing that the stock GTX460 is as fast as a 5850, but the 800mhz card is. You're quite right that you can overclock a 5850, the only point people are making with the regard to the Palit card, is that it gives you 5850 performance for £35 less.

There really isn't anything for people to get confused/angry about!

Everyone needs to chill, they are just graphics cards.

Marine-RX179 · 13 Jul 2010 at 16:45

Tute said:
[Edit] No actually, I won't bite.

No, actually, I will.

I don't see anywhere i've even mentioned overclocked cards. I've simply stated that the GTX460 is somewhere between the HD5830 and HD5850 in performance, which it is. If you want to compare overclocked parts, then you'll need to compare it to an HD5850 at 1GHz, which opens the gap up again.

The last half of your post really confirms what an utter worthless troll you are. I bought this card at the time because it was as fast as I could go in a Sugo SG05. I'd have loved to get a GTX470/480 in there, or even an HD5870. But beyond the Fermi offerings cooking the inside of my case, I doubt the 300W PSU would have coped either. But I guess you're too narrow minded to bother considering that.

Congratulations on being the only person on my ignore list. I reserve it for only the worst posters.

Read your own post at #33. You are the one that said I was wrong about Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum 1GB being pretty much as fast as 5850. You made the mistake of thinking of other GTX460 and won't even admit it, and you make a come back by calling me a troll? I admit I was slightly ******, but most people would if being accused of being wrong, when it turns out the accuser/wise guy who thought he knew better actually made a mistake.

If anything you should learn from this is be absolutely certain you are right before call other people being wrong, or you are just gonna end up embarrassing yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, it is accurate for me to say the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum 1GB being pretty much as fast as 5850, whereas you saying it is not, you are actually misinforming the OP. Try to remember this is a thread which the OP is asking for info and details regarding the cards for him to decide which one to buy, not a "GTX460 vs 5850 dual to death there can be only one thread". 5850 is a great card, and was the most bang for bucks card when it was at £200, but many agreed that it is not as much bang for bucks after the price got raised to £230+ level and left peoples' sub-£200 budget range. The 5850 is little faster than the Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum 1GB in some games, but it is certainly not £30 worth of faster speed.