5850 or 460?

[p0rks0da]

In that sense wouldn't you pay an extra £25 for the asus 5850 and apply an 125mhz OC on it for 5870 performance, I would.
The stock 460 1g is a far better buy, you could OC it to come close/match the palit one which yes gets it into 5850 territory. But to suggest the palit is a better buy than a +£25 5850 baffles me as many can oc to over 1ghz which will absolutely kill the palit for that extra £25.
Just to point out: I am NOT a fanboi in case anyone reading this thinks i'm pro ati. At the moment i have both teams in my rig, and when it's time for me to upgrade I will get the best bang for buck at the time. I do not care for brand loyalty as the brands do not care for us. They just wan't to take our money!............Sorry rant over!

All anyone including myself has been saying is that the Palit GTX460 is as fast as a stock 5850, and cheaper. Whether it's a better buy than a 5850 is entirely up to the individual to decide. It's an off the shelf speed/price comparison - really nothing more than that!

 

[Stanners]

We are hitting new heights of purchase justification, it is brilliant. You do not even have to read peoples signatures, you can see they have a ATI card just from the comments. Brilliant, please keep it up, it brightens my day at work

 

[DELETED_83755]

There is nothing worng with the 5850 at all, apart from the price. I'm sure AMD or online retailers won't lose any money if they dropped it down to say £180.

Unlike the distinction in the forum, the differences between the two cards is not that much.

Personally I would just buy either card and enjoy gaming and overclocking the nuts off it.

 

[The Running Man]

Dude, relax It's not a personal attack on your character to say that the Palit GTX460 is as fast as a 5850!

because id say on average it is not and after overclocking the 5850 will run away with it and yes you can get a 5850 for £199 now and you can also find asus 5850 with voltage tweak for £215

The Sapphire 5850 Toxic is £270, i should damn well hope it could beat a £200 GTX460!

groan.

the sapp toxic is an over priced card, i used the review example because that allows me to show the over clocking performance of a MILDLY OC 5850 which btw scales better mhz for mhz compared to a gtx 460 when it comes to over clocking,

I know The point is that is how much you pay for a 35mhz OC on the Toxic. You pay £200 for a 125mhz OC on the Palit GTX460 for 5850 matching performance.

no the point is that ANY 5850 will easily exceed a Toxic in basic overclocking terms, its just easier to find a review of the toxic to show you how much of an increase 5850 gets from such minor clock increases. an asus for £215 has the voltage tweak many people have seen over 900mhz core.

for instance GPU score 17,200 from a clocked 5850

http://service.futuremark.com/resultComparison.action?compareResultId=1980691&compareResultType=19

which is the same as my gtx 470 got at 775 core. show me the GTX 460 scores again pls? didnt someone here get 14,500 or less? i calculate that as an 18% increase in performance from the GTX 460 to the 5850?



a reference design 5850 is quieter, the same price as a gtx 460 OC and will overclock further - changing the performance dynamic massivley.

is it school holidays already?

 

[Freddie1980]

Don't nVidia have a better history with drivers?

Now you've done it. Does anyone have a seal I can use for a can of worms?

Out of the two cards I would lean towards the HD5850 but only just, you might was well get the fastest card you can afford and the 5850 is very efficient in terms of power draw to performance seems to be quieter of the two cards. Some of the comments in the GTX460 thread suggest that the 460 isn't as quiet as some of the reviewers have made it out to be but this is all colloquial evidence and very subjective.

 

[p0rks0da]

is it school holidays already?

Stop trolling please. It's not my fault you cannot understand what i am saying.

Anyway i give up, it's a total waste of time talking to you. You posted a review then removed one of the benchmarks to try and falsely prove your argument. All i have said is that the Palit card is as fast as a stock 5850, which the review you tried to fix shows to be true.

Anything else you care to conjure up into the argument is your business, but you are not even responding to what was originally claimed by myself and others.

 

[Freddie1980]

There's no point in trying to compare a stock card against an overclocked card as results are always going to be up in the air as some games get no benefit from increased clocks, others a marginal increase and some you might get a notable difference. Also if the overclocked card will pull more power, are hotter which means it will most likely be nosier as the fan is working hard to dissipate the heat.

 

[p0rks0da]

There's no point in trying to compare a stock card against an overclocked card as results are always going to be up in the air as some games get no benefit from increased clocks, others a marginal increase and some you might get a notable difference. Also if the overclocked card will pull more power, are hotter which means it will most likely be nosier as the fan is working hard to dissipate the heat.

You don't have to overclock the Palit, that is precisely the point. It's 800mhz stock, for £200. It is a price/performance comparison OFF THE SHELF.

If you want to overclock yourself you can go buy a GTX460 1GB for £169 and clock it to 800+.

 

[The Running Man]

Anyway i give up, it's a total waste of time talking to you. You posted a review then removed one of the benchmarks to try and falsely prove your argument. All i have said is that the Palit card is as fast as a stock 5850, which the review you tried to fix shows to be true.

no i missed it by accident it wasnt a malicious thing at all.

but you dont want to compare the futuremark link i provided?

Anything else you care to conjure up into the argument is your business, but you are not even responding to what was originally claimed by myself and others.

what do you claim? at a card at £200 performs similarly to another card at £200? (gtx 460 OC vs 5850?) my point is simply that the 5850 has a much higher oc potential than the OC GTX 460 and that once you factor this into the equation the majority of cases where GTX 460 won will be reversed and the occasions where the 5850 won originally will be exemplified...

im not really conjuring up. i posted a toxic review to show how a menial OC on the 5850 can produce increase by between 2-12% game dependant, now imagine an increase from 735mhz core to 900mhz core instead of 765 as per the toxic and work that into your rating system. the 5850 comes out trumps, surely even you could agree this to be true.?

If you want to overclock yourself you can go buy a GTX460 1GB for £169 and clock it to 800+.

theres no gauarantee on the core and no guarantee on the memory though. nvidia have started to speed bin their cores according to anandtech forums. and i dont know if the non OC versions come with the same samsung mem chips rated to 2000

 

[Marine-RX179]

Some of the comments in the GTX460 thread suggest that the 460 isn't as quiet as some of the reviewers have made it out to be but this is all colloquial evidence and very subjective.

I read those post, and I think it is because almost all the GTX460 has a different custom VGA cooler, so quiet or loud could depend on the brand and the cooler it uses. Also, I recall one of the post sating the default fan profile is quiet at low temp, and fan speed at 80% and loud at load, but got temp to low end of the 70C. In my opinion it is not neccessary to go as low as 70C at the cost of high fan speed and loud fan. Setting the profile to 55-60% fan speed for load and temp at around 80C would be fine; even the 5770 is hitting 80-85C at load.

I guess IF I was buying a GTX460, I would probably buy one that's got a better cooler and which the manufacturer does good RMA for their warranty.

 

[Langlest]

anyone think that ati might lower the price of the 5850 now this card is available?

im thinking of picking up a 2nd one for crossfire but if they might come down in price soon ill wait

 

[Marine-RX179]

anyone think that ati might lower the price of the 5850 now this card is available?

im thinking of picking up a 2nd one for crossfire but if they might come down in price soon ill wait

Saw one at under £200 at another etailer, but they put their company name as the brand for the card, so I'm guessing it's like the OcUK value cards which the company send you whichever brand they wish.

Other places have show signs of lowering prices for the 5850...hope OcUK will follow soon. ATI's been overcharging their 5850/5870 for long enough...it's about time that they at least drop the prices back to the prices at launch.

 

[Freddie1980]

You don't have to overclock the Palit, that is precisely the point. It's 800mhz stock, for £200. It is a price/performance comparison OFF THE SHELF.

If you want to overclock yourself you can go buy a GTX460 1GB for £169 and clock it to 800+.

Yeah, I think you missed the point I was trying to make (my fault I should have been clearer), if you going to compare overclockd cards compare them to other overclocked cards. You can still keep the stock cards in there for reference but at least compare overclocked cards against cards from other manufactures so the consumer can see what’s on offer and then weigh its performance gains against cons from overclocked cards (off the shelve or otherwise the draw backs are the same apart from the warranty situation).

Personally I don’t like to overclocked video cards, it’s not like overclocking the CPU where gains most of the time are liner. Video cards tend to have a short life span as it is without the extra stress placed on the card from faster clockrates, extra heat and more voltage. And as soon as a card starts to artefact you know your in trouble as the process can’t be reversed and will only get worse.

 

[Geckovich]

I'd just like to point out that ATI aren't the ones who raised the price, lack of competition for the last 9 months or so just meant retailers have been able to get away with it.

Personally I think that the 5850 and 460 are the best cards available from their respective manufactures at this point in time.

 

[EvilOne]

Technically they in diffrent price brackets. Get a 5850 if you can afford(or need more gpu power), otherwise 460 is great value too. Both will overclock very well if your into that, so that's not a factor.

There's not going to be any major price cut's to the AMD lineup, not till the next cards come out anyways .

 

[RavenXXX2]

Now that you get a 5850 for £199, is the 460 now redundant to those that care not about brand.

 

[Nemesis379]

Asus 5850, and then OC it?

 

[SirCanealot]

anyone think that ati might lower the price of the 5850 now this card is available?

Maybe retailers will lower the price too?

 

[p0rks0da]

no i missed it by accident it wasnt a malicious thing at all.

but you dont want to compare the futuremark link i provided?

I already agreed with the Vantage result, which means it's level with the 5850, i am done repeating myself.

what do you claim? at a card at £200 performs similarly to another card at £200? (gtx 460 OC vs 5850?) my point is simply that the 5850 has a much higher oc potential than the OC GTX 460 and that once you factor this into the equation the majority of cases where GTX 460 won will be reversed and the occasions where the 5850 won originally will be exemplified...

im not really conjuring up. i posted a toxic review to show how a menial OC on the 5850 can produce increase by between 2-12% game dependant, now imagine an increase from 735mhz core to 900mhz core instead of 765 as per the toxic and work that into your rating system. the 5850 comes out trumps, surely even you could agree this to be true.?

I claimed that the Palit GTX460 could match the stock 5850 on performance. The 5850 is £200 NOW - and i wonder why that is eh? Because they have had to bring prices down because of the pressure from the factory overclocked GTX460's! This is a good thing and shows that the GTX460 is clearly viewed as a threat to the 5850 at previous prices Customer wins.

OF COURSE AN OVERCLOCKED 5850 WILL WIN, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS SO ANNOYING ABOUT TALKING TO YOU. YOU DO NOT READ WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.

This is from my post directly talking to you yesterday at 5:30pm:

And nobody ever suggested that the 5850 couldn't be overclocked, or that an OC 5850 would not beat the GTX460!

theres no gauarantee on the core and no guarantee on the memory though. nvidia have started to speed bin their cores according to anandtech forums. and i dont know if the non OC versions come with the same samsung mem chips rated to 2000

There is no guarantee on the 5850 overclocking either (unless you buy an expensive factory overclocked card - erm like the Toxic...) so who cares? By all accounts most of the new ones clock poorly compared to the early designs due to cost saving on non-reference designs etc... There has not been a single review anywhere where the GTX460 didn't clock well over 800mhz on stock volts.

 

[psychas]

5850 has better image quality .