5950x optimisation advice

[TheSoupladel]

I have recently just upgraded to a 5950x, which is overkill in my current System of 3060 and 1080p panels but i bought it with the intention of eventually getting better panels and a better GPU when and if things normalise closer to MSRP.

So in my current situation i am not really looking to overclock as its not needed. however i would like to ensure i am getting the most out of the CPU at stock. To that end i have installed it to my motherboard (Crosshair VIII Hero) with a Noctua DH-15 and left everythng at default with the exception of enabling DOCP for the RAM.

The testing i have done so far show i am only hitting 5Ghz occasionally on two cores, a few other on 4.9 but most of the rest on much lower speeds. on Multicore laods such as Cinebench, all cores clock down to around 3.9Ghz which i understand is expeceted behaviour for a sustained mutlicore load.

Is there anything i can do to bring things up a little bit under single core performance such as gaming? i have read up a little bit on curve optimiser and is that about the only area i can get into to improve things?

 

[Joxeon]

I'd just leave it at stock or maybe adjust the curve optimiser a bit for now as its not like overclocking the CPU will make any difference on a card like a 3060 in gaming, even on high end cards there is very little to gain from overclocking the CPU as AMD pretty much maxes them out of the box.

Overclocking the GPU would be more worthwhile though as you may gain around 5-10% extra fps.

 

[TheSoupladel]

I'd just leave it at stock or maybe adjust the curve optimiser a bit for now as its not like overclocking the CPU will make any difference on a card like a 3060 in gaming, even on high end cards there is very little to gain from overclocking the CPU as AMD pretty much maxes them out of the box.

Overclocking the GPU would be more worthwhile though as you may gain around 5-10% extra fps.

I am not looking to overclock specifically, just to make the most of the 5950x at stock or close to stock. the fact i am not hitting 4.9 on a substantial number of the cores despite adequate cooling suggests something is perhaps not quite right, either that or i really crapped out on the silicon lottery

 

[Audioboxer]

I have recently just upgraded to a 5950x, which is overkill in my current System of 3060 and 1080p panels but i bought it with the intention of eventually getting better panels and a better GPU when and if things normalise closer to MSRP.

So in my current situation i am not really looking to overclock as its not needed. however i would like to ensure i am getting the most out of the CPU at stock. To that end i have installed it to my motherboard (Crosshair VIII Hero) with a Noctua DH-15 and left everythng at default with the exception of enabling DOCP for the RAM.

The testing i have done so far show i am only hitting 5Ghz occasionally on two cores, a few other on 4.9 but most of the rest on much lower speeds. on Multicore laods such as Cinebench, all cores clock down to around 3.9Ghz which i understand is expeceted behaviour for a sustained mutlicore load.

Is there anything i can do to bring things up a little bit under single core performance such as gaming? i have read up a little bit on curve optimiser and is that about the only area i can get into to improve things?

Reasonable "plug and play" settings to give a go. Manual PBO settings, PPT 270, TDC 150, EDC 190 and then work on your curve. Try a minus -10 all core undervolt and then run this https://github.com/sp00n/corecycler/releases

The "problem" with doing an all core undervolt is one of your better cores might literally tap out at -5~-10, whereas the weaker cores might get up to -25~-30. If even one core is unstable it might lead to random reboots or issues weeks if not even a month down the line.

I've got one of my best cores at -5, the other 3 better cores at -15 and the rest at -25.

There is of course no such thing as "plug and play" settings with anyone's individual CPU, other than going almost full auto, so it's worthwhile giving this a watch too https://youtu.be/dU5qLJqTSAc

These chips are less about overclocking and more about finding out how to feed them with the minimum voltage/power needed so they run cooler and therefore might boost higher. That's why you can just stick with mostly auto if you can't be bothered tweaking, all you'll probably "lose" out on is a slightly better boost and you might have more heat to get rid of with your cooling system.

 

[TheSoupladel]

Reasonable "plug and play" settings to give a go. Manual PBO settings, PPT 270, TDC 150, EDC 190 and then work on your curve. Try a minus -10 all core undervolt and then run this https://github.com/sp00n/corecycler/releases

The "problem" with doing an all core undervolt is one of your better cores might literally tap out at -5~-10, whereas the weaker cores might get up to -25~-30. If even one core is unstable it might lead to random reboots or issues weeks if not even a month down the line.

I've got one of my best cores at -5, the other 3 better cores at -15 and the rest at -25.

There is of course no such thing as "plug and play" settings with anyone's individual CPU, other than going almost full auto, so it's worthwhile giving this a watch too https://youtu.be/dU5qLJqTSAc

These chips are less about overclocking and more about finding out how to feed them with the minimum voltage/power needed so they run cooler and therefore might boost higher. That's why you can just stick with mostly auto if you can't be bothered tweaking, all you'll probably "lose" out on is a slightly better boost and you might have more heat to get rid of with your cooling system.

Will give this a bash a little later.

Something i didn't do when putting the 5950x in and was also something i didn't do with the 3900x previously as connecting the additonal 4pin CPU power connector, as i understand it that is only used when undertaking extreme overclocking/LN2. Am i right in saying that or is there any benefit to connecting that in normal use?

 

[Joxeon]

I am not looking to overclock specifically, just to make the most of the 5950x at stock or close to stock. the fact i am not hitting 4.9 on a substantial number of the cores despite adequate cooling suggests something is perhaps not quite right, either that or i really crapped out on the silicon lottery

The 4.9 is only the single core boost for light workloads, when running stuff like cinebench all core then your more likely to be around 4.4

 

[TheSoupladel]

The 4.9 is only the single core boost for light workloads, when running stuff like cinebench all core then your more likely to be around 4.4

I am aware that the single core boost is for light laods, however in the research i have done so far, others are able to reach higgher figures on more cores with stock settings during those light loads such as 5.0 on perhaps 4 cores or more where as i am not. So i was hoping optimising the settings might improve this as i couldnt possibly be unlocky in the silicon lottery two CPUs in a row, lol

Cinebench all core drops to around 3.9Ghz for me currently

 

[Quartz]

The testing i have done so far show i am only hitting 5Ghz occasionally on two cores,

Aside from not having PBO enabled, are you giving the CPU enough power? Do you have both the 4 pin and 8 pin EPS connectors plugged in?

 

[TheSoupladel]

Aside from not having PBO enabled, are you giving the CPU enough power? Do you have both the 4 pin and 8 pin EPS connectors plugged in?

PBO is enabled, or at least is on Auto.

and as per one of my previous responses, i do not have the 4pin cable connected because i was given to believe that is only required for extreme overclocking/LN2

 

[TheSoupladel]

Reasonable "plug and play" settings to give a go. Manual PBO settings, PPT 270, TDC 150, EDC 190 and then work on your curve. Try a minus -10 all core undervolt and then run this https://github.com/sp00n/corecycler/releases

The "problem" with doing an all core undervolt is one of your better cores might literally tap out at -5~-10, whereas the weaker cores might get up to -25~-30. If even one core is unstable it might lead to random reboots or issues weeks if not even a month down the line.

I've got one of my best cores at -5, the other 3 better cores at -15 and the rest at -25.

There is of course no such thing as "plug and play" settings with anyone's individual CPU, other than going almost full auto, so it's worthwhile giving this a watch too https://youtu.be/dU5qLJqTSAc

These chips are less about overclocking and more about finding out how to feed them with the minimum voltage/power needed so they run cooler and therefore might boost higher. That's why you can just stick with mostly auto if you can't be bothered tweaking, all you'll probably "lose" out on is a slightly better boost and you might have more heat to get rid of with your cooling system.

So in addition to plugging in the 4pin cpu connector, i have run with these settings and -5 on the two best cores (as reported by ryzen master) -10 on the next two cores then everything else at -20.

the results are both encouraging and disappointing because the all core speed under load such as cinebench all cores has come up quite a bit to 4.4Ghz but the single core performance in Cinebench single core has dropped off to 4.95 on the two best cores on CCX0 then 4.75 and 4.725 on the better cores of CCX1

 

[Audioboxer]

So in addition to plugging in the 4pin cpu connector, i have run with these settings and -5 on the two best cores (as reported by ryzen master) -10 on the next two cores then everything else at -20.

the results are both encouraging and disappointing because the all core speed under load such as cinebench all cores has come up quite a bit to 4.4Ghz but the single core performance in Cinebench single core has dropped off to 4.95 on the two best cores on CCX0 then 4.75 and 4.725 on the better cores of CCX1

I should have added Ryzen Master reports the cores 1-16, the BIOS and all stability apps report them 0-15. So what is say, core 5 in Ryzen Master, is actually core 4 when it comes to BIOS settings or if you're running CoreCyler and a core crashes. You might have ended up putting -20 on one of your best cores or something lol.

You can try something like 280/235/235, but it will produce more heat and/or might work worse. Or just leave the PBO values on auto for now.

 

[TheSoupladel]

I am running that core cycler just now and have two errors on core 0 and core 2 with ryzen master reporting those as the best cores, it’s onto iteration 2 now.

I should add that since the original post I have made some changes with the 4 best cores on -15 and the rest on -25 my limits are at 270, 200 and 190, so it’s like cores 0 and 2 need to perhaps be on -10.

I presume I have done the right thing in not messing with the voltage direct and leaving that on auto?

 

[Audioboxer]

I am running that core cycler just now and have two errors on core 0 and core 2 with ryzen master reporting those as the best cores, it’s onto iteration 2 now.

I should add that since the original post I have made some changes with the 4 best cores on -15 and the rest on -25 my limits are at 270, 200 and 190, so it’s like cores 0 and 2 need to perhaps be on -10.

I presume I have done the right thing in not messing with the voltage direct and leaving that on auto?

Whatever core the error is on in CoreCycler is the name of the core in the BIOS. So if CoreCycler says, for example, Core 5 has an error, whatever Core 5 is listed at in your BIOS needs to be less of a negative value. You can even drop/add by 1. People just tend to go in increments of 5 to try and speed up the wide-testing net, then if you want you can get down to every last drop.

Say it's not stable at -10, you drop to -5, it seems to be stable, then you try, -6, -7, -8, etc.

Also CoreCyler does each core in 6 minute bursts. It's best to leave running overnight once you find your cores aren't erroring out first or second cycle. Then whatever cores error out, if you open config.ini in the folder of CoreCyler, you can change this part



Notice how I am ignoring 2, 5, 11 and 14? Those are my four best cores. I know they are stable where they are. I was testing -30 on the other cores to see if it would be stable. Speeds things up having CoreCyler not spend 6 minutes each cycle testing the cores I am not tweaking.

You can even ignore every core but the core you have an error on and just hit it non-stop for an hour or so. So for you ignore everything but Core 0 and Core 2 if you want to focus on finding what they will be stable at quicker.

As I said above just make sure whatever your best cores are in Ryzen Master you deduct 1 off the value



See how it says 3, 6, 12 and 15 are my best cores? Well in the BIOS/CoreCyler those are depicted by 2, 5, 11 and 14.

A bit confusing to grasp at first, but it just seems to be the way it is with the BIOS/most apps starting from Core 0 and going to Core 15, whereas Ryzen Master, logically, wants to name them Core 1 to Core 16.

I should also add if you want to try and improve your single score, add a 50~100mhz boost to max core clock in the BIOS. That might cause the curve to need tweaked again for stability, but 50~100 is usually totally fine on a 5950x. I'm at 100 on mine, I only mention 50 as some people say it actually produces a better score for them than 100~200. Just one of those things you need to try.

 

[TheSoupladel]

Yeah I was already comfortable with the difference in core numbering between Ryzen master and BIOS etc… but that unfortunately hasn’t helped.

I thought I had managed to dial it in at -5 on the four best cores there was an additional two cores at -10 then the rest at -30. I wasn’t seeing any improvement in performance either single or multi core but I figured I would run core cycler at the out setting for 1 iteration to see how that turned out and it fell over at the very first core (core 0 as per bios) despite being perfectly ok in the previous runs.

I have returned to the curve being at auto but sticking with the limits at 270, 200 and 190 which maintains the 4.3 to 4.4 all core performance at sustained load in cinebench. I have not had any time to try out gaming performance to see how it operates in a real world test.

I am therefore open to suggestions as to what I can do to improve on things or have I just got a bit of a lemon of a 5950x, albeit a very fast lemon

 

[Audioboxer]

Yeah I was already comfortable with the difference in core numbering between Ryzen master and BIOS etc… but that unfortunately hasn’t helped.

I thought I had managed to dial it in at -5 on the four best cores there was an additional two cores at -10 then the rest at -30. I wasn’t seeing any improvement in performance either single or multi core but I figured I would run core cycler at the out setting for 1 iteration to see how that turned out and it fell over at the very first core (core 0 as per bios) despite being perfectly ok in the previous runs.

I have returned to the curve being at auto but sticking with the limits at 270, 200 and 190 which maintains the 4.3 to 4.4 all core performance at sustained load in cinebench. I have not had any time to try out gaming performance to see how it operates in a real world test.

I am therefore open to suggestions as to what I can do to improve on things or have I just got a bit of a lemon of a 5950x, albeit a very fast lemon

The curve is a lot about heat because the way PBO works is it will boost to either frequency cap per power/current supplied or thermal limit, whatever comes first. If thermal limit is coming first that obviously hurts frequency potential.

You want as low voltage as possible being fed to the chip so that heat is as low as it can be. It's a balancing act between supplying voltage/power and handling the excess heat. These chips get very hot, this 5950x runs even hotter than my 3900xt did.

Did you try what I edited in above? Change the OC boost frequency to +50~100mhz on top of the curve modifying.

Also what did you upgrade from? Likely won't make much of a difference but AMD advises not to use Ryzen 3xxx power profiles with 5xxx, but stick to the Windows balanced power plan. If you came from an older Ryzen processor it will have installed the Ryzen power plans as part of the chipset drivers. The 5xxx chipset drivers don't even install them.

 

[TheSoupladel]

The curve is a lot about heat because the way PBO works is it will boost to either frequency cap per power/current supplied or thermal limit, whatever comes first. If thermal limit is coming first that obviously hurts frequency potential.

You want as low voltage as possible being fed to the chip so that heat is as low as it can be. It's a balancing act between supplying voltage/power and handling the excess heat. These chips get very hot, this 5950x runs even hotter than my 3900xt did.

Did you try what I edited in above? Change the OC boost frequency to +50~100mhz on top of the curve modifying.

Also what did you upgrade from? Likely won't make much of a difference but AMD advises not to use Ryzen 3xxx power profiles with 5xxx, but stick to the Windows balanced power plan. If you came from an older Ryzen processor it will have installed the Ryzen power plans as part of the chipset drivers. The 5xxx chipset drivers don't even install them.

I upgraded from a 3900x but i was already using the balanced power plan anyway.

I did try changing the max boost overide frequency to 50 and 100Mhz but it doesnt seem to have done anything.

On the subject of thermals, i am using the Noctua DH15 so i know its reasonably good cooler and in some instances better than some AIOs, however i would be interested to know at what temps does the 5950x with PBO thermal throttle? i am assuming approaching 90? is Hwinfo accurate in confirming whether the CPU has throttled at any point or does PBO have a differing throttle point?

Also, are there other settings that should be changed for PBO in addition to the limits such as the scalar? presumably with the 5000 series there is no need to disbale SMT?

 

[Audioboxer]

I upgraded from a 3900x but i was already using the balanced power plan anyway.

I did try changing the max boost overide frequency to 50 and 100Mhz but it doesnt seem to have done anything.

On the subject of thermals, i am using the Noctua DH15 so i know its reasonably good cooler and in some instances better than some AIOs, however i would be interested to know at what temps does the 5950x with PBO thermal throttle? i am assuming approaching 90? is Hwinfo accurate in confirming whether the CPU has throttled at any point or does PBO have a differing throttle point?

Also, are there other settings that should be changed for PBO in addition to the limits such as the scalar? presumably with the 5000 series there is no need to disbale SMT?

90 is the operating temp "limit" I believe, but I am actually unsure if temps in say the 80s will display any throttling prior to the hard limit.

Max boost override from what I've gathered will impact light loads more than it will heavy loads. So in theory, it should/could help with single core scores. But in order for it to really squeeze out a bit more performance it has to be balanced properly with a stable curve.

There's not really any shortcuts with squeezing the last drop out of performance on these chips other than testing figures, stability checks and benchmarking. Other than just accepting auto performance and leaving it at that.

If you haven't watched it from earlier this is a good theory video on PBO and 5xxx https://youtu.be/dU5qLJqTSAc

 

[TheSoupladel]

i dont know if this is expected behaviour or not, but i have noticed that if i run CBr23 single core, the clock speed of cores 0 & 2 seem ot fluctuate in an alternating pattern. The fluctuation doesn't seem to be tied to the onscreen completion of each tile either.

 

[TheSoupladel]

I feel like a bit of a muppet for not noticing this before, however it seems in my bios there are two entirely different areas for setting up the limits and curve optimiser one is under tweaker settings and the other is under AMD overclocking, seems stupid but is there a difference between these areas and their effect on speed etc…?

 

[Audioboxer]

I feel like a bit of a muppet for not noticing this before, however it seems in my bios there are two entirely different areas for setting up the limits and curve optimiser one is under tweaker settings and the other is under AMD overclocking, seems stupid but is there a difference between these areas and their effect on speed etc…?

If its an ASUS, yes. Well, for the PPT, EDC and TDC limits. Under the Advanced AMD Overclocking section EDC and TDC are hard-limited at 190 and 160.

Have to use the AI tweaker section to set numbers higher for TDC and EDC.

Other than that I don't think so, just AMD bios jank where there is multiple sections that can do the same thing. The curve optimiser is under the advanced AMD section and that is the only place it exists. At least on ASUS boards.

Ryzen Master will tell you what your PPT, TDC and EDC values are.