Poll: 60fps vs 30fps

60fps vs 30fps

  • 30fps is as good as 60fps, I can't tell the difference anyway

    Votes: 34 17.4%

  • 60fps if possible, 30fps otherwise, but it has to be constant either way

    Votes: 107 54.9%

  • Todays consoles should all run 60fps - no excuses

    Votes: 54 27.7%
  • Total voters
    195

dirtydog

dirtydog

dirtydog

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In order not to take other threads off topic it was suggested that I make a separate thread for this subject. When the subject comes up in future, I can hopefully point to this thread for any further discussion to avoid derailing the other thread.

My contention is that 60fps both looks and feels significantly smoother than 30fps. Hence a game with a 60fps framerate looks and feels better and more responsive than a game with a 30fps framerate.

I am not saying that 30fps is 'unplayable', I am saying that it is adequate, but that it is a compromise.

I realise that this subject provokes a lot of controversy and strong feelings, and most people in this forum seem to find 30fps perfectly acceptable so long as the framerate does not drop below 30. My position is that while 30fps is 'adequate', it isn't good and in my opinion is not good enough when we have consoles of the power of the Xbox360. Not when we bear in mind that we had 60fps games 20 years ago, like Hang On and OutRun in the arcades. Not when Sega Rally on the Sega Saturn was 60fps. And not when most games on the Dreamcast were 60fps :)

Perhaps it would be interesting to have a poll of people's views on the subject. Which one category would you choose out of the following? (Maybe a Don would like to turn this into a proper poll?)

A. 30fps is just as smooth and responsive as 60fps - the human eye can't tell the difference.

B. I agree that 60fps is smoother and more responsive than 30fps. But so long as the framerate is constant and doesn't drop or stutter, 30fps is more than enough.

C. I agree that 60fps is smoother and more responsive than 30fps and I think that with the power of today's consoles, it should be standard.


Unsurprisingly I am in category C :)
 
Tbh i couldnt give a stuff abotu framerates and its kinda getting boring and tiring hearing you bleat on about it all the time.

As people have said, its down to the programmers to make sure the game is playable and it seems theres a few games in which it was rushed or programmed by monkeys. The worst one i have seen on the 360 is Saints Row, but that was when i first got the game and i have heard that they did an update for it which solved the framerate issue. But i havent checked as my brother at the moment has it...other than that i havent really noticed any other games that have frame-rate issues...but then im not that fussy about things like that....perhaps its my eyesight thats bad but other than Saints Row...all the other games have been playable and enjoyable.

Can we not have an option of I dont really give a flying stuff about frame-rates as thats the category id most likely choose.
 
As long as the game is good enough anyway, and framerate doesn't impact on its enjoyment, I couldn't care what it is running at to be honest. I can quite happily put up with the occasional dip in framerate as well, like in stuff like TR:Legend, Saints Row etc. as those game are very enjoyable.

And its all very well saying that we had 60FPS games years ago, but they weren't pumping out the kind of effects we have today - things have moved on considerably in what the game devs can do visually.

Guess I would vote B :shrugs:
 
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Kronologic said:
How about you post some comparative videos to demonstrate the differences, because tbh a lot of us can barely tell from looking what is what. We only notice a change in frame rates.
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It is hard to demonstrate with videos. All I can think of is to list games which are 30fps, and games which are 60fps and for people to see for themselves.

For example

30fps
PGR 2
Forza Motorsport

60fps
PGR 1
Gran Turismo 3 and 4
Toca Race Driver 2 and 3
 
ideal framerate is subjective to your own opinions, and the game in question. this whole 60v30fps only really applies to racers( as you can see from your complete lack of anything that isnt a racer in that list above), so ill use the only game i can think of that can run fixed @ both rates.....GT2. at 30fps it felt right, responses were pretty much spot on, graphics were good (for the time). In the 60fps mode, it was edgy and it just felt unnatural. A grreat showcase for power (again at the time) but it didnt play right at all.

comparing PGR I & II there arent really many differences. I didnt mind the drop in rates because it was still a consistent framerate (for the most part) and it still felt 'right'.

It's really more down to the game engine and how stubborn you are, its not a black and white thing.
 
if 60 is better than 30 then is 100 better than 60 ?

Where does it stop ? at the refresh rate ? I rem in the past it has been rpoven the human eye doesnt work at any given fps. That it can detect well above 60.

Really though, I dont care aslong as its not stuttery. It varies a lot between types of games what is acceptable too.
 
Nismo said:
As long as the game is good enough anyway, and framerate doesn't impact on its enjoyment, I couldn't care what it is running at to be honest. I can quite happily put up with the occasional dip in framerate as well, like in stuff like TR:Legend, Saints Row etc. as those game are very enjoyable.

And its all very well saying that we had 60FPS games years ago, but they weren't pumping out the kind of effects we have today - things have moved on considerably in what the game devs can do visually.

Guess I would vote B :shrugs:
Click to expand...

Quoted to save me typing effectively the same thing.
 
JaFFa said:
if 60 is better than 30 then is 100 better than 60 ?

Where does it stop ? at the refresh rate ? I rem in the past it has been rpoven the human eye doesnt work at any given fps. That it can detect well above 60.

Really though, I dont care aslong as its not stuttery. It varies a lot between types of games what is acceptable too.
Click to expand...


the human eye can detect changes at >200fps
 
dirtydog said:
It is hard to demonstrate with videos. All I can think of is to list games which are 30fps, and games which are 60fps and for people to see for themselves.

For example

30fps
PGR 2
Forza Motorsport

60fps
PGR 1
Gran Turismo 3 and 4
Toca Race Driver 2 and 3
Click to expand...


It seeems like it is only driving games that you have an issue with
 
i have this many fps's in my pocket ++++

It only matters in proper PC cpl stuff tbh and its been ages since ive played anything like that and IT WAS PATCHED OUT due to unfairness :P

128 fps q3 jumping madness :)
 
JaFFa said:
if 60 is better than 30 then is 100 better than 60 ?

Where does it stop ? at the refresh rate ?
Click to expand...
It certainly stops at the refresh rate :) But even on a screen with a high refresh rate (100Hz+) it is a law of diminishing returns. To me the difference between say 60 and 100fps is not noticeable. But between 30 and 60 to me is a huge difference.
 
Did he say IMO yet?

Im category B, as long as the framerate goes un-noticed and doesnt restrict my enjoyment i am a happy bunny.

Infact, to be honest, if i know a game is at 60FPS running smooth, then im more likely to think.. well.. hold on.. couldnt they have put in some more graphical prowess to utilise that extra power?
 
Kronologic said:
It seeems like it is only driving games that you have an issue with
Click to expand...
No not the only ones I have an issue with - it's just that driving games are my favourite genre and those are games that I have played personally :) I do think that 60fps is particularly important for driving games though, and that it is less important for some other genres. RPG games for example, I would say the framerate isn't very important. Of course 60fps is always nice, but it is not a big deal in RPG games. In driving and fighting games it is very important. In FPS and 3rd-person games it is important. All IMO :)
 
Kreeeee said:
Dirtydog, hopefully after this thread you can drop all of this because it's incredibly tedious seeing you go on and on about it in every thread you're in.
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That is the reason I have made this thread, because I don't want to derail other threads :)
 
Depends entirely on the game for me. Fast paced games such as racing like PGR all the way to FZero should be at 60fps minimum cos the difference is noticeable to 30fps. If it were resident evil, I'd happily get by on 25-30fps.
 
o god its dirtydog again.... o and what a surprise another post/thread with the words 60fps in it. give it a rest man, its stupid, if 30fps really was an issue then gears of war and pgr3 wouldnt have sold by the shedload.

its a non issue.
 
Mana said:
o god its dirtydog again.... o and what a surprise another post/thread with the words 60fps in it. give it a rest man, its stupid, if 30fps really was an issue then gears of war and pgr3 wouldnt have sold by the shedload.

its a non issue.
Click to expand...

To be fair, he has started a separate thread so it can contain all the comments without threads going OT - so maybe give him a break this time ;)

His opinion is as valid as anyone else's here, its just that not many agree with him :D
 
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