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6800 series slides
- Thread starter Broken Hope
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Associate
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I wonder how these boards are going to compare on price. I was up for buying the GTX 460 and have been waiting for these new boards before buying.
I predicted a 30% improvement for the Cayman XT ("6970") over the 5870 a few weeks ago, when the specs of Barts and Cayman were leaked (shader configurations, #TMUs, #ROPs etc), and I still stand by this assuming those specs are close to correct. Given the stated architectural improvements and increased modularity, the increased core clock and memory bandwidth, and the increase in the number of shader units, the 1920-shader 6970 should be around 30% faster than the 5870. This should put it around 10-20% faster than a stock GTX480, and should have it competing well with an overclocked GTX480. Assuming that the 6970 has some reasonable overclocking headroom, it should turn out to be a very impressive card.
It should be expected that the 6970 will draw over 250W. Power efficiency scaling against performance is never linear (within a given architecture). Also, AMD have adopted a somewhat more modular design this time around, with division into RPEs (self-contained blocks of 640 shaders, 32TMUs and 16ROPs). Such modularity improves architectural scalability (boding well for future GPU generations), but comes with an overhead in control logic - which eats up additional transistors and requires additional power draw.
It will be interesting to see what Antilles brings to the table. I will be very surprised indeed if it consists of two "full-fat" Cayman XT GPUs, for power draw considerations alone. I don't expect it will use two Barts cores, although this is a possibility, since Barts is effectively 2/3 the chip of Cayman (as opposed to half for the 5770 vs 5870), and a dual Barts setup would beat out a Cayman XT in almost all circumstances. Still, I would expect to see Antilles based on a dual Cayman pro chip, perhaps clocked down a little. We will need to wait and see though - very little information on Antilles is around right now.
edit:
I don't know how much you can read into the "performance" slide above but... Notice how the gap between Antilles and Cayman is smaller than the gap between Cayman and Barts, or between Barts and Juniper? Cayman is "50% more GPU" than Barts, with a similar bump in memory bandwidth. So, to see a smaller jump from Cayman to Antilles is interesting. It could lend some weight to the dual-Barts idea. Still too early to tell though...
I do find it interesting that AMD seems to be re-using the Juniper core (Nvidia stylee), although I don't think it's really an issue. The core still has a solid place in the market, and the rebrand could well lead to reduced prices on Juniper parts.
It should be expected that the 6970 will draw over 250W. Power efficiency scaling against performance is never linear (within a given architecture). Also, AMD have adopted a somewhat more modular design this time around, with division into RPEs (self-contained blocks of 640 shaders, 32TMUs and 16ROPs). Such modularity improves architectural scalability (boding well for future GPU generations), but comes with an overhead in control logic - which eats up additional transistors and requires additional power draw.
It will be interesting to see what Antilles brings to the table. I will be very surprised indeed if it consists of two "full-fat" Cayman XT GPUs, for power draw considerations alone. I don't expect it will use two Barts cores, although this is a possibility, since Barts is effectively 2/3 the chip of Cayman (as opposed to half for the 5770 vs 5870), and a dual Barts setup would beat out a Cayman XT in almost all circumstances. Still, I would expect to see Antilles based on a dual Cayman pro chip, perhaps clocked down a little. We will need to wait and see though - very little information on Antilles is around right now.
edit:
I don't know how much you can read into the "performance" slide above but... Notice how the gap between Antilles and Cayman is smaller than the gap between Cayman and Barts, or between Barts and Juniper? Cayman is "50% more GPU" than Barts, with a similar bump in memory bandwidth. So, to see a smaller jump from Cayman to Antilles is interesting. It could lend some weight to the dual-Barts idea. Still too early to tell though...
I do find it interesting that AMD seems to be re-using the Juniper core (Nvidia stylee), although I don't think it's really an issue. The core still has a solid place in the market, and the rebrand could well lead to reduced prices on Juniper parts.
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Caporegime
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No one had an issue with 300W for the 480gtx, as shown by many people buying them, the main issue was 120W more, which is over 60% more power, yet, obviously, MUCH less than 60% more performance.
But its exactly that which would suggest a 300W AMD anything would BLOW a 480gtx away, massively. Why? Because Evergreen is already significantly more power efficient than Fermi, massively massively so.
THe 460gtx uses 20W less than the 5870, the 5870 is 100% ahead at 2560x1600 without AA(highest setting Techpowerup show), and 40-70% ahead at lower resolutions, that ISN'T a memory limitation on the 460gtx either.
That means an evergreen at 300W, would utterly demolish a 480gtx.
Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised to see a slightly higher clock speed and voltage which will lower its efficiency vs power slightly. But then NI is seemingly a VERY large power/performance advantage over Evergreen to start with.
Still, as said, slides = easy to knock up, having a watermark from a site I don't believe a word of doesn't make them more believable.
Fudzilla is laughable though, the one and only person to leak the 12th date said it was PRESS event only, would involve NDA's and launch would be the 19th +/- 1-2 days. So 12th = press event including NDA's happened exactly on schedual.
Caporegime
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As you said, it may just be transistioning later, we know there are turks and caicos cores, those slides, if real, suggest an entire line up of second generation parts with improved performance in every segment.
Also remember this, every wafer you get of 5870's if all things are going right, yield 100-120 cores, with 5770's you're talking about closer to 250, and in production AMD will be making probably 100 times as many 5770 wafers as 5870, because its a far higher volume segment.
Couple far higher volume with hugely higher numbers of stock on shelves, in stores, AIB warehouses, and AMD warehouses and it will take longer for the stock to die out, if they launch something 30-40% quicker for the same cost, they want most stock gone first.
Add on top the 5770 price point in general £100-125, and the fact Nvidia recently bottomed out the price of the 460gtx 768mb (at a loss for each core, remember its a bigger core than the 5870) just to increase sales which obviously impacts 5770 sales means the 5770 are probably taking a bit longer to sell out than AMD had wanted.
I'd also suggest that the bad press AMD got(almost entirely TSMC's fault) could have been lessened if they only had the top end in production for the first couple months. So wait for the volume parts a couple months, sell old stock without harming price massively, more production for the newer higher end stuff which is where new buyers go first. People who rush into a new gen card, are high end users, thats why there was ample 5770 stock from launch, but the 5870/5850 had stock issues.
My guess is a combination of all these factors means it makes more sense to limit production to the higher end most wanted asap stuff, and introduce the 5770 replacement at the same time it did the low end like last year. No one was in a rush to get a 5450 last year, which is why it came later, not many people were in a rush for a 5770 either, so delay them which means they can pump out far more high end bits, I think, everyone wins in that scenario?
Sounds like you can't read or make your own assumptions.
I hate reading through these threads in search for some reliable info...
Also, official TDP for GTX480 is just below 300W even though we know it doesn't meet PCI-E standards in real world power consumption. I'm willing to bet on 5970 (single core Cayman XT in other words) will still use less power than GTX480 whilst outperforming it performance-wise.
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Stop being such a snotty knob.....i was asking if my assumptions were accurate..
If they werent then fine, no need to say so in such a crappy manner
Ok then, sorry about sounding harsh and being a knob. Please do read the thread before you post though, it's already hard to get through the amount of bull**** these threads generate.
Associate
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A solid place in the market as a 5770 maybe? After all that what it is. People mostly ATI guys were of the opinion that Nvidia were milking the 8800GT for all it was worth by re-branding it. Don't see much difference here to be honest.
Just what this thread needed.The difference is ATI is becoming AMD and the cards that are decided to be continued have to be re-branded.
Is every other card they produce getting rebranded and re numbered as well in this change ?
i.e. the laptop GPu range
I don't much care what the card is called really. If it fits into the next generation lineup well, then so be it.
But yes - those who complained about nvidia's re-branding of the G92 core will undoubtedly have the same issue with the re-branding of Juniper.
Oh no they wont!!
Why wouldn't they?
It's the same thing, is it not?
...Unless you're referring to fanboyism and brand loyalty? I suppose it goes without saying that certain people will view everything through rose tinted glasses, but I tend to just discount such opinions as irrelevant.
Why wouldn't they?
It's the same thing, is it not?
...Unless you're referring to fanboyism and brand loyalty? I suppose it goes without saying that certain people will view everything through rose tinted glasses, but I tend to just discount such opinions as irrelevant.
I was talking in a circus type of way mate as in - oh no they wont, oh yes they will
If you look around this section, there are poeple trying to justify it now in threads and it has not been confirmed either way yet!
Heh - fair enough
Certainly nothing has been confirmed yet.Still seems a little odd to me that people would take it personally if a mid-low end architecture was reused with a different name.
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So that's their excuse for having poor tessellation, looks like it's carried on through to the 6*** series. Where there is a decent level of tessellation it performs at previous generation level, hardly any tessellation it performs better than previous gen, that's progress for you....
Does the new AA not look way to blurry...
Does the new AA not look way to blurry...