6th form for the smart and college for thick people ?

[Freakbro]

I went to college for a year, by the time I was 21 I was a team leader training graduates and earning about £5k more than they were, I made enough to retire by the time I was 38. Does that make me thick?

I know loads of people with degrees that never used them and still work a 9-5 now in jobs they hate. I'm struggling to see the "intelligence" in that.

Intelligence =/= success or wealth though. The biggest factor to success in life is drive and motivation.

I know extremely intellectual people who struggle and are as poor as a church mouse and conversely people who cant even write their own name build up multi-million £ businesses.

 

[Freefaller]

Isn't college and 6th form the same thing? I.e. you do your 3 A-levels in both? Sounds like it isn't but never really appreciated they were different things. Always assumed people just called it different things.

 

[Freakbro]

Isn't college and 6th form the same thing? I.e. you do your 3 A-levels in both? Sounds like it isn't but never really appreciated they were different things. Always assumed people just called it different things.

It's just the remnants of class snobbery from the old Grammar/Comprehensive debate. Like cars, they all do the same fundamental job, but some marques are perceived superior even if in reality they aren't.

 

[Haggisman]

But the decision was vindicated as I flourished at college due to the more adult environment and vastly outperformed most of my friends who stayed at the sixth form.

Yes, definitely my experience, I'd say maybe 50% (very rough guess) of those who stayed on at 6th form didn't really "go anywhere" whereas I think there's only really 1 guy out of my college class who hasn't gone on to make a good career (probably due to smoking far too much weed!)

I wouldn't say this is necessarily due to the difference in quality between school/college, but more the fact that 6th form was seen as the "easier" choice (e.g. It's less effort/safer to stay at the school you already attend) whereas those of us who moved to the college had a bit more drive and ambition.

That being said, I did some part-time lecturing for BTEC IT at the same college during my final year, and the contrast was huge - the majority of students certainly fit the OP's stereotype perfectly

 

[dlockers]

Yes, definitely my experience, I'd say maybe 50% (very rough guess) of those who stayed on at 6th form didn't really "go anywhere" whereas I think there's only really 1 guy out of my college class who hasn't gone on to make a good career (probably due to smoking far too much weed!)

I wouldn't say this is necessarily due to the difference in quality between school/college, but more the fact that 6th form was seen as the "easier" choice (e.g. It's less effort/safer to stay at the school you already attend) whereas those of us who moved to the college had a bit more drive and ambition.

That being said, I did some part-time lecturing for BTEC IT at the same college during my final year, and the contrast was huge - the majority of students certainly fit the OP's stereotype perfectly

I joined a Btec National Certificate for IT and could only stomach a week. I think they allocated about 10 weeks to learning subnetting and the class were just *****. The National Diploma was good though, I learnt a fair amount. Lots went onto uni, a few still work in bars.

 

[ianh]

And yet you come across as a functioning member of society.

The first school in Stoke with CCTV in the corridors IIRC, which then had to be replaced with armoured CCTV cameras after 6 months - Ah great memories

Not to poop on people from Stoke as there's some great folks still there but leaving was the best thing for me, although weirdly as I've not lived there for 30+ years, my accent has virtually disappeared even though I still use local words/phrases, which causes no end of confusion when I visit as people taking the pee etc although saying "cost kick a bow agen' a woe, y'ed it back an bost it" and being understood is always fun

 

[Haggisman]

I joined a Btec National Certificate for IT and could only stomach a week. I think they allocated about 10 weeks to learning subnetting and the class were just *****. The National Diploma was good though, I learnt a fair amount. Lots went onto uni, a few still work in bars.

There was a definite split in my students

About 1/3 wanted to be there, paid attention, did high quality work, etc.

The other 2/3 were there purely to get their EMA payments and because IT was an "easy" subject where they could basically sit on YouTube the whole lesson and do the minimum work required.

The problem with BTEC grading is that it's very much a tick box exercise - there's no differentiation between an excellent high quality piece of work and something which has been cobbled together in 5 minutes - if it meets the grading criteria then you get your pass/merit/distinction.

This was coupled with the fact that the college was funded based on "bums on seats" - 1/4 payment per student for each term, plus the final 1/4 if they passed - this meant that it was in the college's interest to keep everyone in the class even if they were being disruptive to the other students.

This really ****** me off - seeing the bright students get no recognition over the **** ones.

 

[dlockers]

There was a definite split in my students

About 1/3 wanted to be there, paid attention, did high quality work, etc.

The other 2/3 were there purely to get their EMA payments and because IT was an "easy" subject where they could basically sit on YouTube the whole lesson and do the minimum work required.

The problem with BTEC grading is that it's very much a tick box exercise - there's no differentiation between an excellent high quality piece of work and something which has been cobbled together in 5 minutes - if it meets the grading criteria then you get your pass/merit/distinction.

This was coupled with the fact that the college was funded based on "bums on seats" - 1/4 payment per student for each term, plus the final 1/4 if they passed - this meant that it was in the college's interest to keep everyone in the class even if they were being disruptive to the other students.

This really ****** me off - seeing the bright students get no recognition over the **** ones.

You would have talked to death with my late uncle. He left Dunlop's as an electrician in the 00's and retrained, teaching BTEC electrical at Mathew Boulton. He said he'd often have to basically guide their hand with the pencil to get them the passing grade. Felt sorry that such a proud hard working man was reduced to the pits of society like that.

 

[Robbod]

Excellent, I am now of an age where I can behave like a cantankerous old colonel in Midsommer Murders.

In my day, we got rid of the chaff at 16 to college, then post 6th form it was forces or university - no choices!

Yeah that`s what i was lead to believe

 

[Zefan]

Really pleased to see you've recovered from your coma or have had success with your time machine development. We also have more than three TV channels now.

 

[LiE]

I did 6th form for a bit, it was crap. Still treated us like children. I then went to college where they treated us like adults. They also thought it was a great idea to take a bunch of 18 year olds to Prague for an “educational” trip, boy was that messy still can’t drink JD to this day.

 

[LiE]

I joined a Btec National Certificate for IT and could only stomach a week. I think they allocated about 10 weeks to learning subnetting and the class were just *****. The National Diploma was good though, I learnt a fair amount. Lots went onto uni, a few still work in bars.

National Diploma in IT from College crew checking in.

 

[GlitterBalls]

I don't know but I know I had a great time at college. Great years!

 

[dowie]

Isn't college and 6th form the same thing? I.e. you do your 3 A-levels in both? Sounds like it isn't but never really appreciated they were different things. Always assumed people just called it different things.

Nope, not generally though there are some "tertiary colleges" that do blur the divide and offer a mix of both academic and vocational courses.

6th form can be 6th forms attached to schools and independent 6th form colleges to cater for leavers of secondary schools that only teach up to year 11.

Those 6th form colleges are for 16 to 19 year olds and offer A-levels and/or IB exams, they are distinct to Further Education colleges which offer vocational courses, apprenticeships, HNDs, foundation degrees and even full degrees and aren't just for 16-19 year olds but accept adults too

Were they more or less than £15 a set? We need to know.

College was not for thickos.
College was not for thickos. Yes there were courses in practical bricklaying and plumbing (before Poles were invented) but also ordinary and higher national diplomas and certificates in various engineering briefs which overlapped to University courses when I was at college.

they were a bit heftier than the typical thin domestic ones. Yeah, it's unfair to label everyone who went to technical college and took vocational courses as "thickos", though the really thick people did end up there/couldn't get into any 6th forms.

Likewise, the brightest people would tend to study for A-Levels (or IB), not some supposed "equivalent" vocational qualification and they'd aim for the best universities they could get into (including would-be Engineers).

 

[Voltar]

Why is there a separation between 6th form and college- is my understanding of this more or less right?

6th form is just staying on at school until you’re 18.

College is where some people go to do A levels if they don’t like their school or are adults who want to do A levels?

It’s quite confusing as college to many means university or a part of a university.

 

[Freefaller]

Nope, not generally though there are some "tertiary colleges" that do blur the divide and offer a mix of both academic and vocational courses.

6th form can be 6th forms attached to schools and independent 6th form colleges to cater for leavers of secondary schools that only teach up to year 11.

Those 6th form colleges are for 16 to 19 year olds and offer A-levels and/or IB exams, they are distinct to Further Education colleges which offer vocational courses, apprenticeships, HNDs, foundation degrees and even full degrees and aren't just for 16-19 year olds but accept adults too



they were a bit heftier than the typical thin domestic ones. Yeah, it's unfair to label everyone who went to technical college and took vocational courses as "thickos", though the really thick people did end up there/couldn't get into any 6th forms.

Likewise, the brightest people would tend to study for A-Levels (or IB), not some supposed "equivalent" vocational qualification and they'd aim for the best universities they could get into (including would-be Engineers).

Thanks! When I moved to the UK my school took me through GCSEs and A-levels. Hadn't realised there were stand alone schools that did only A-levels or beyond GCSE lessons. Makes sense to have that diversity as it enables you to focus on the A-levels you're interested in with a different environment or specialisms I guess?

I hired someone who did a BTEC and followed an apprenticeship route. (now a senior engineer and a chartered too! ) He didn't do A-levels so that all makes sense now. I hadn't really ever explored it as I was more interested in people's work ethic, personality, enthusiasm and capabilities rather than academic prowess.

However I had always been impressed by the apprenticeship cohorts we had, so never gave it a second thought. I guess as a hiring manager I should be more in tune with this stuff. Probably makes me a **** senior leader!

 

[Haggisman]

Nope, not generally though there are some "tertiary colleges" that do blur the divide and offer a mix of both academic and vocational courses.

6th form can be 6th forms attached to schools and independent 6th form colleges to cater for leavers of secondary schools that only teach up to year 11.

Those 6th form colleges are for 16 to 19 year olds and offer A-levels and/or IB exams, they are distinct to Further Education colleges which offer vocational courses, apprenticeships, HNDs, foundation degrees and even full degrees and aren't just for 16-19 year olds but accept adults too



they were a bit heftier than the typical thin domestic ones. Yeah, it's unfair to label everyone who went to technical college and took vocational courses as "thickos", though the really thick people did end up there/couldn't get into any 6th forms.

Likewise, the brightest people would tend to study for A-Levels (or IB), not some supposed "equivalent" vocational qualification and they'd aim for the best universities they could get into (including would-be Engineers).

One thing to consider is that colleges are potentially better equipped for some subjects, since they also cater for higher levels, e.g. the college I went to had significantly better IT and science labs than my school.

It’s quite confusing as college to many means university or a part of a university.

That's very much an American thing I believe (in fact for a long time I was quite confused about the American obsession with getting into the best college until I realised they meant university )

 

[dowie]

Thanks! When I moved to the UK my school took me through GCSEs and A-levels. Hadn't realised there were stand alone schools that did only A-levels or beyond GCSE lessons. Makes sense to have that diversity as it enables you to focus on the A-levels you're interested in with a different environment or specialisms I guess?

Yeah, my school had a 6th form too so people generally just stayed on but there were several secondary schools in the local area that finished at year 11/GCSE level - the local Catholic school, another secondary school that was in a village outside the main town etc. so we had an independent 6th form college in town for pupils coming out of year 11 at those schools + a technical college for vocational stuff.

At my school there were tighter GCSE grade requirements to stay on for 6th form too so a small number of people who didn't get the grades still wanted to attempt A-levels went to the 6th form college, also we had to wear school uniforms still and were in school full time with extra subsidiary subjects/lessons so a few others chose to go to the local 6th form college instead too.

I did know one kid from my junior school who didn't bother with 6th form and instead went on some Engineering apprenticeship after GCSEs, don't know him now but I suspect he's probably done quite well from that as it was a large, well-known employer.

One thing to consider is that colleges are potentially better equipped for some subjects, since they also cater for higher levels, e.g. the college I went to had significantly better IT and science labs than my school.

I think that's dubious/a bit short-sighted tbh. I mean my school was well equipped enough for A-level Chemistry and Physics and I'm not sure that some alternative vocational qualification would be a good idea for someone wishing to pursue a science subject at a top university even if the college offering it does have a nicer lab or better facilities. Better to get good A-levels and get into a good university for the subject and you'll have access to even more facilities.

Maybe useful for vocational IT subjects but someone wishing to study say CS or Software Engineering at a good university doesn't generally even need to study anything IT related at A-Level, rather it's typically maths A-level they need.

 

[Robbod]

I`ll never understand why my sister stayed in 6th form and didn't go to college

 

[Robbod]

I suppose as college provides courses on hair and cosmetics i guess people who go are looked as been less intelligent