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9590 or 4770K?

Let's face it here. Mantle was designed by AMD, so it's obviously going to work better with AMD hardware.

Before I'm jumped on that doesn't mean I'm saying it won't work well with Intel hardware or Nvidia GPUs, just that it will make the absolute most of the AMD hardware. Why on earth would AMD invest millions developing their own API if it didn't use their hardware absolutely brilliantly?

I've said this time and again, but Piledriver (or Vishera if you want to call it by the codename) is old technology. Old as in about four years old. AMD haven't really changed much with it since it was adopted in ways from their server CPUs. Instead of throwing raw power at badly optimised APIs like DirectX they've done it the other way around. IE - written their own API that will support their hardware properly. Because let's face it - hardware is absolutely ferk all without the software to run on it. AMD now have a perfectly reasonable and salvageable CPU technology, and now they have that bit of software to go with it.

And, thankfully, it's all in the aid of gaming.
 
Anyone else just got a sneaky feeling that Mantle will be the game changer, as pointed out by ALXAndy, its been written by AMD to support their hardware first and foremost. If it does deliver, considering the chips are in the new consoles etc, a lot more games will be optomised to run on it. Will be interesting to see the first MMO with full Mantle support.

Still on the fence atm over ordering an AMD or an Intel CPU, im ordering a few days before xmas, hopefully we might see the BF4 Mantle patch by then.
 
SiDeards73 said:
Anyone else just got a sneaky feeling that Mantle will be the game changer, as pointed out by ALXAndy, its been written by AMD to support their hardware first and foremost. If it does deliver, considering the chips are in the new consoles etc, a lot more games will be optomised to run on it. Will be interesting to see the first MMO with full Mantle support.

Still on the fence atm over ordering an AMD or an Intel CPU, im ordering a few days before xmas, hopefully we might see the BF4 Mantle patch by then.
Click to expand...

AMD are aiming to make gaming possible on one of their APUs. That is what they are strongly focusing on. That means ditching anything else and making sure that your APUs can do pretty much anything gaming wise. They've been trying to do it for years.

Once they have the software in place and set up (Mantle, but more importantly HSA - I would do some research on exactly what it means and what it does*) then they can start getting the game devs to make sure that their architecture is given priority in the same sort of way the consoles are. So instead of being like this -

Make the game for the most popular console first (ATM XB360) then get it running on the next console (PS3) then throw brute force at it when making it run on DX11. It will be Most important console (TBD) second most important console, HSA.

And HSA is the same way the PS4 runs games. So in theory you could buy say, a £100 APU and get the same level of performance you get out of a PS4. Cheap board, cheap ram = gaming PC.

The Xbox one and Ps4 are basically gaming PCs running on cheap hardware provided by AMD.

* it basically addresses hardware at a low level, stitching it all into one unified lump. This drastically reduces latency, for example.
 
Thank you for the input guys.

Pulled the trigger on a 4770K.

My last full upgrade was from a socket 939 Athlon.

At the time, Conroe was still the "Internet Darling" of CPU's however was near the end of its shelf life.

I was torn between a Core2Duo and an AM3 720BE 3 core.

The AMD won out as it was a new socket with DDR3 too. The extra core did make a difference and to be honest, even now, it is still a good CPU. Also, at the time, the comparable "Bang for Buck" was VERY MUCH in AMD's corner.

This time around, I am upgrading at a time when the 2 main sockets are "end of life" so the decision was not so clean cut. The "Bang for buck" was not obvious either as although the AMD's are the cheaper route, the "BANG" is not comparable to the Intel offering so in some ways, the more expensive Intel offered better "bang for buck" if that makes sense.

I am sad to be leaving AMD, they have given me YEARS of faithful service.

Socket A
Socket 939
AM3

I have to say though AMD, this time round, I could not justify another AMD platform, even if you were cheaper. The "Bang for buck" somehow alluded you.
 
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Crazy it took this long and then didn't go with the 8320. Anyway enjoy your purchase, report back after it's all set up and working.
 
Gaming was a use I had in mind but I generally needed more grunt for other tasks.

Clock for clock, at this moment in time, I felt the 4770K was the better choice.

In my mind, 8 physical cores should slaughter Quad/Threaded cores yet generally, the i7 performs better which I have no explanation for.
 
yeah still on my i7 2600k, and whilst my history has been Amd from Super socket 7, Socket A to 939 to am2+am3. 2 years on neither Intel nor Amd provide a worthy upgrade from what I currently USE.
 
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Gimpymoo said:
Gaming was a use I had in mind but I generally needed more grunt for other tasks.

Clock for clock, at this moment in time, I felt the 4770K was the better choice.

In my mind, 8 physical cores should slaughter Quad/Threaded cores yet generally, the i7 performs better which I have no explanation for.
Click to expand...

That's one thing that does my absolute nut in!
They're just inefficient.
 
They are 8 cores but quite narrow and the FPU shares resources. The Intel cores are wider and share less resources.

Intel are also a process node ahead of AMD,which helps them too.
 
Intel aren't really taking advantage of that process node advantage on the CPU front, so it's a kinda null argument as you've just got to compare it to the edging on 3 years old Sandy Bridge.
 
Martini1991 said:
Intel aren't really taking advantage of that process node advantage on the CPU front, so it's a kinda null argument as you've just got to compare it to the edging on 3 years old Sandy Bridge.
Click to expand...

I am not sure that is entirely correct. The 22NM process seems to be much more leakier(from what I have read and the charts I have seen) and higher voltages,than say 32NM. This is because the 22NM process and finfets are optimised for lower voltages,not higher ones. However,that process node advantage is important for density though,and power consumption which is ultimately which limits AMD. Intel can add IPC improvements easily at each generation as they have the die area to spend. They can also add cores,but maximum clockspeed has stagnated. AMD,ultimately cannot do this so easily,even if clockspeeds are maintained.

Unfortunately only GF(outside of Intel and IBM) do these cutting edge process nodes for larger chips. However,IBM sells much lower volumes and extremely expensive and specialised chips,which have a claim to be the fastest on the market for supercomputer use.
 
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It being leaker doesn't seem to be an advantage :p?
Pretty sure 32nm could handle more voltage too.

Power consumption, yes that's on Intels 22nm side, but the 32nm 2600K overclocked is still > FX8350 at a lower power consumption.
 
Martini1991 said:
It being leaker doesn't seem to be an advantage :p?
Pretty sure 32nm could handle more voltage too.

Power consumption, yes that's on Intels 22nm side, but the 32nm 2600K overclocked is still > FX8350 at a lower power consumption.
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So was the Core i7 3820(which is still quite near TBH) which is closer to the size of the FX8150 and FX8350 in die area,cache amount and number of transistors. The thing is AMD was still behind at that point since Intel was at 32NM 18 months earlier than GF could push out chips. The other aspect is that AM3+ is a two chip solution unlike the Intel consumer sockets and FM sockets,so the power consumption is higher.

Ultimately if AMD was nearer parity with Intel on process node jumps,they would be much closer. The cores could be more complex or at the very least they could pack more cores in,which would be useful for some of the FM CPUs for example,and make the chips smaller too. Even the reason why the FM chips lack more cache is down to die size I suspect.

However there is only so much a company 1/11 the size can do TBH,and most of the fab capacity is geared towards low power and high density products - not desktop CPUs. So its a bit of a problem for AMD.

Kaveri will ship at lower clockspeeds than Richland it seems,which is down to the process tech being used. However,rumours indicate a decent IPC increase,although I suspect it won't overclock as far IMHO.
 
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The 3820 has stuff in it that the FX's don't, so bringing it into question changes the landscape slightly more than it should.

Also, PD's AMD's third 32nm CPU's (Llano/Zambezi) , as Sandy 1155 can be considered Intels 3rd 32nm stuff, which is me trying to be as fair as I can.

Nevermind, I don't think we're going to be seeing eye to eye, as we're straying off the initial point.
 
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Big money in games come from consoles and a huge part of selling the games is graphics . If mantle provides better performance in consoles then it will be adopted much quicker as it is no secret that the next gen are having huge issues with graphics and running at 1080.
The knock on effect will be huge in pc
 
EdgeDs said:
Big money in games come from consoles and a huge part of selling the games is graphics . If mantle provides better performance in consoles then it will be adopted much quicker as it is no secret that the next gen are having huge issues with graphics and running at 1080.
The knock on effect will be huge in pc
Click to expand...

The consoles won't be using mantle..
I love marketing, it does crazy things.

Though I'd expect some good things from the PS4, what with it essentially having inbetween 7850 and 7870 performance, and they can get down to the bare metal to code.

But we'll see if anything magical happens from it, so far I'm very meh about the next gen.
 
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