i dont know, do you beleive that i think could be faked?
there is obviously a chance and it wouldnt be the first time in history of auto journalism.
A Mustang with a live axle beating an R8 and M3? Surely not possible!!
- Thread starter Gibbo
- Start date
i dont know, do you beleive that i think could be faked?
there is obviously a chance and it wouldnt be the first time in history of auto journalism.
thing is though, is traditionally GT mustangs were typical american yank tanks that couldn't handle. Producing a model that could handle was left to the tuners.
Ownly now the "import" scene in america is really taking off. Probably due to influences like the fast and the furious movies, reputation for good reliability and european build quality and a whole bunch of other influences.
And ford has realised that in order for the top of the range mustang to compete, its got to start producing cars that handle. Stock.
The fact the new GT with track pack pegs so closely around a track with the M3 competition pack speaks volumes with what ford are trying to achieve here. The 5.0 V8 in the GT is cutting edge for ford.
I suppose given that, i'd be more inclined to see it up against the C63 AMG which seems like the more suited sparring partner.
C63 always fairs worst on lap times in group tests. I've seen numerous C63 vs M3 saloon, vs RS4 vs ISF tests and the C63 always comes last. So if its 2 seconds quicker than the m3, it'll be 4 or 5 seconds quicker than the C63.
In all fairness though, the competition pack for the M3 is about as 'sporty' as the 'sports chrono' option in 911's - i.e. not very
I'm not familiar with Laguna Seca mind. Is it a track that might compliment certain types of cars better than others?
Your obviously no expert if you think their social anthropological variances in automobile choice and demographics are in any way unique.
Try looking down in the south for unique social culture, when you get to the federate flags, see how many foreign cars you spot in comparison to American etc etc
Also mow down anyone who looks like this.
In all fairness though, the competition pack for the M3 is about as 'sporty' as the 'sports chrono' option in 911's - i.e. not very
I'm not familiar with Laguna Seca mind. Is it a track that might compliment certain types of cars better than others?
not really. Its not exactly a track that favours top line speed or anything, as it doesnt have very many big straights.
This is good to watch if you've not seen Laguna Seca before
Thing is though.....
If I was buying a Mustang I would never expect it to handle so well, so it would be a big plus if it did. I think a lot of people have low expectations of how any american car handles, but its slowly changing now Ford, Chevrolet etc are putting a lot more effort into the handling of their sports cars.
The other thing is, I think Id prefer a Camaro to a Mustang. However Id still take the M3 over all of them
Thing is though.....
If I was buying a Mustang I would never expect it to handle so well, so it would be a big plus if it did. I think a lot of people have low expectations of how any american car handles, but its slowly changing now Ford, Chevrolet etc are putting a lot more effort into the handling of their sports cars.
The other thing is, I think Id prefer a Camaro to a Mustang. However Id still take the M3 over all of them
Driven a Camaro, compared to a Mustang its soft and the visibility out of the cabin is very poor which makes hustling one more difficult. The Mustang is a much sharper car.
Driven a Camaro, compared to a Mustang its soft and the visibility out of the cabin is very poor which makes hustling one more difficult. The Mustang is a much sharper car.
Ive not driven either but from looks alone Id take the Camaro.
Soldato
- Joined
- 9 Jan 2008
- Posts
- 6,521
- Location
- London/Camberley
Here's a review: http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Ford-Mustang-Boss-302/258510/ Looks like it was imported into the UK for the test.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Sep 2007
- Posts
- 11,117
- Location
- West Yorkshire / Market Bosworth
And that article confirms what I said about bumps in the road and live axles.
You only have to take a ride in an LTI Black Cab to know how bad live axles can be onroad. On smooth track, no real issues.
Please don't compare a Mustang to LTI Black Cab, not even comparable.
I owned a Mustang, for over 3 years total, it never killed me, crashed or otherwise.
Like the article says it is very capable, it just takes more from the driver to extract that capability which is part of the fun.
Numerous members went out in mine on roads full of turns and most of them were shocked at its handling, basically by how good it was or in complete fear as they simply never expected such a car to manage such corner speeds.
That was mine, the BOSS 302 is further improved.
I think you are overstating the issue I mentioned. A live axle is nasty on a bumpy road, a trip in a black cab, a common car in the UK can verify this. However good the car is on a smooth track does not compare to the road. I have driven many live axle cars over the years and every single one had one thing in common, as soon as the inside wheel hit a bump, the whole back end felt nervous. If it slid, it was easily controlled, that is the positive that balances it out. I know you have a soft spot for the mustang having owned a supercharged and well sorted one, but however good this car is on track, the R8 or M3 would be far nicer on road, and that is without taking into account the left hand drive, which no doubt you will say is not an issue either
It is for me, I loathe lhd cars, and will never have one again.So yeah, it never killed you, nor did the heavily tuned Escorts, Anglias and Capris of my early driving career, and as much fun as they were, I know their limits and faults, you should at least acknowledge the fact that this is true, like Autocar have
PS. I bet many of those passengers also never went out in a well sorted Mk1/2 Escort with 200+ bhp and weighing around 800kgs
PPS. Live axle would not be a deal breaker for me, just the lhd
Last edited:
I think you are overstating the issue I mentioned. A live axle is nasty on a bumpy road, a trip in a black cab, a common car in the UK can verify this. However good the car is on a smooth track does not compare to the road. I have driven many live axle cars over the years and every single one had one thing in common, as soon as the inside wheel hit a bump, the whole back end felt nervous. If it slid, it was easily controlled, that is the positive that balances it out. I know you have a soft spot for the mustang having owned a supercharged and well sorted one, but however good this car is on track, the R8 or M3 would be far nicer on road, and that is without taking into account the left hand drive, which no doubt you will say is not an issue either
So yeah, it never killed you, nor did the heavily tuned Escorts, Anglias and Capris of my early driving career, and as much fun as they were, I know their limits and faults, you should at least acknowledge the fact that this is true, like Autocar have
PS. I bet many of those passengers also never went out in a well sorted Mk1/2 Escort with 200+ bhp and weighing around 800kgs
PPS. Live axle would not be a deal breaker for me, just the lhd
You seem to be failing one major point, I've owned a Mustang, an M3 CSL, driven several M3's. Your deriving your conclusion from a ride in a black cab and escorts/capri's of 30 years ago, really they are not comparable. The live axle in the Mustang is a lot more sorted compared to the item you will find in a black cab and old escorts/capri's......
Your sounding like the armchair experts who slate the modern Corvette because it has leaf springs, yet they handle superbly well, yet they are on leaf springs. Yes the technology is old, but its also had more time to be perfected/improved.
Ford proved this, the 2004 Cobra Mustang had an IRS suspension, yet the 2005 model went to a live axle and it was the better handling car, yet it had a live axle.
Soft spot no, did I enjoy the car, yes damn right, did it becomes nervous or out of control on anything but the smoothest roads, no not at all, it was planted, yes not as planted as a proper sorted IRS performance car but there was next to nothing in it.
Put it this way, the M3 CSL was better than the Mustang at all handling aspects, compared to a regular M3 (E46) it was on par and in certain circumstances better.
Having driven the new M3 its great but for me something just did not click, to the point handling wise I preferred the Mustang, it could be the weight as the thing I did feel in the M3 was its weight, it did not seem to hide it well as say some other heavier cars do, for example the R35 GTR feels lighter than it is.
An S197 live axle:-
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 18,194
- Location
- Shakespeare’s County
An S197 live axle:-
That picture pretty much sums up the basis of Dr Whos points that you are so quick to discredit..... how that is even comparable to IRS on a UK B road I dont know.