A rant

furnace · 23 Oct 2008 at 18:25

Internet Explorer doesn't render as close to standards as Firefox. It's worse from a developers point of view - we waste hours because of IE refusing to do things properly.

You call us lazy, because we recommend a browser that's made by people who bother to try and do things properly? You're taking the ****. Opera is better than Firefox? Fair enough, opinions and all that. It's better than IE, too.

There is far more wrong with IE than there is with FireFox, and if that doesn't make it a "worse" browser in your opinion, then I don't care what you think at all.

matja · 23 Oct 2008 at 19:08

meghatronic said:
Would you drive on a road that said for x users only?

I don't like being told what to do.

If it's a smooth road and I have round wheels (Firefox), then yes.
If i had square wheels (IE), then no, I'd look for a bumpy road to drive on where my square wheels work best.

fez · 23 Oct 2008 at 19:55

Haha, how old are you? Firefox is a much better browser than IE7 and everyone who uses both will tell you that. I hate being told what to do; are you 12. Try and at least think before you post on a public forum where you are expecting responses from educated people.

Would you drive on a road that says for X users only. Come on, that is the worst analogy I think I have ever heard. It doesnt say only for firefox users, it says it will be better on firefox. In the same way that a road could say "easier to drive on with round tyre." Let me guess, you would be there with your square wheels going "I dont like being told what to do, im not using this road" rather than thinking why are they saying that. Good luck with life mate, there will be lots of people telling you what to do and by the sounds of it you might do well to listen to them.

Ladforce · 24 Oct 2008 at 09:52

fez said:
Haha, how old are you? Firefox is a much better browser than IE7 and everyone who uses both will tell you that. I hate being told what to do; are you 12. Try and at least think before you post on a public forum where you are expecting responses from educated people.

Would you drive on a road that says for X users only. Come on, that is the worst analogy I think I have ever heard. It doesnt say only for firefox users, it says it will be better on firefox. In the same way that a road could say "easier to drive on with round tyre." Let me guess, you would be there with your square wheels going "I dont like being told what to do, im not using this road" rather than thinking why are they saying that. Good luck with life mate, there will be lots of people telling you what to do and by the sounds of it you might do well to listen to them.

So, tell me, why is IE7 so terrible compared to ff3 then? I personally have had no problems producing websites that work on both. I get the feeling theres quite a few ff3 fan boys posting in this thread without really knowing what they are talking about.

adamph · 24 Oct 2008 at 11:38

Ladforce said:
So, tell me, why is IE7 so terrible compared to ff3 then? I personally have had no problems producing websites that work on both. I get the feeling theres quite a few ff3 fan boys posting in this thread without really knowing what they are talking about.

Sounds like your the IE fanboy that doesn't know what he's talking about.

We all have browsers we prefer and if you are a true developer and write valid compliant code you will already know the reasons. If not read some of the comments above and start learning to code properly then maybe you will see the light.

Helium_Junkie · 24 Oct 2008 at 11:44

meghatronic said:
Stop being lazy and code your site to work cross-platform.

You wrote "Microsoft, stop being lazy and code your browser to work with international standards!" wrong.

Dj_Jestar · 24 Oct 2008 at 11:46

Ladforce said:
So, tell me, why is IE7 so terrible compared to ff3 then? I personally have had no problems producing websites that work on both. I get the feeling theres quite a few ff3 fan boys posting in this thread without really knowing what they are talking about.

Dude, give up even posting in this thread any more. That question was answered long before you even asked it, and you've so BLATANTLY skimmed all the replies and only quoted the one which is almost as aggressive, and possibly obnoxious, as your opening post.

Infact, given you're bound to reply anyway, why don't you try convincing us to use IE7?

Longbow · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:02

Ladforce said:
I personally have had no problems producing websites that work on both.

Show us.

Shoseki · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:04

He wants to be sold on the idea, rather than having to justify his own.

Dj_Jestar · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:13

Longbow said:
Show us.

Code:

<html><body>Hello world!</body></html>

Dj_Jestar · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:13

Shoseki said:
He wants to be sold on the idea, rather than having to justify his own.

No he doesn't, he wants to change the world to suit him.

likwid · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:14

Hey busy developers for the web, get back to work!

fez · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:16

I dont think that IE7 is a terrible browser, I just said that firefox is much better than IE7. Firefox is faster, has a better layout, has a vast array of plugins, renders webpages in a more standards complient manner and has more features. Correct me if im wrong of course but I dont think I am.

I design websites as part of my job and I dont have a problem making sites work for both IE7 and firefox but I do have to make fixes to enable the site to view identically in both. If you can show me a decent website that renders properly and functions properly in both IE and FF that hasnt had any browser specific patching I will be impressed.

likwid · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:18

fez said:
If you can show me a decent website that renders properly and functions properly in both IE and FF that hasnt had any browser specific patching I will be impressed.

Dj_Jestar said:
Code:

<html><body>Hello world!</body></html>

Yeggstry · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:21

I tend to find that IE7 is usually fine if you code to standards. Its the annoying IE6 and its box model (yes I know how to get round it) and other odd quirks.

For instance, I got a bug through from a client on a formatting issue in IE6. Turns out that because I'd formatted a form with hidden inputs and an <ul> section nicely in the JSP by tabbing it out IE6 threw a wobbly and put extra spaces in there. So now I have all my hidden inputs and all my <li> tags on one line and it looks awful.

Its bugs like this that really frustrate me, I long for the day when people stop using IE6. At least with IE7 they got it mostly right and having standards-compliant, readable code doesn't cause it to throw a hissy fit.

Ladforce · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:46

adamph said:
Sounds like your the IE fanboy that doesn't know what he's talking about.

We all have browsers we prefer and if you are a true developer and write valid compliant code you will already know the reasons. If not read some of the comments above and start learning to code properly then maybe you will see the light.

Im not an IE fanboy, in fact I only use firefox 3. I agree ff3 is better than ie7 but then again it is a lot newer. IE7 was better than ff2 as it should be as again, it was a lot newer.

I dont know how you can tell me to start coding properly when you have no idea what i've worked on or produced. I always produce valid code which works on ie7 and ff3..its true sometimes a few tweaks are needed but nothing like for ie6.

Ladforce · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:50

Dj_Jestar said:
Dude, give up even posting in this thread any more. That question was answered long before you even asked it, and you've so BLATANTLY skimmed all the replies and only quoted the one which is almost as aggressive, and possibly obnoxious, as your opening post.

Infact, given you're bound to reply anyway, why don't you try convincing us to use IE7?

Well, my opening post was true, what person thought people who wanted to zoom in just wanted bigger text?

So.. from reading the previous posts as you suggested, the only argument seems to be ff3 is more standards compliant which is fair enough and by the way, yes I did know that.

Developers will always have to produce code that works on Microsofts latest browser as they have and always will have a massive proportion of the market so they should stop moaning about standards compliance and just get on with it. Suggesting people should change browser is just stupid, I mean, the casual user may not even know what firefox is so the site owner is immediately losing traffic.

fez · 24 Oct 2008 at 12:55

If people dont know about firefox then it cant hurt to try and let them know. If all browsers were built equal in thier interpretation of code then it wouldnt matter one bit what browser people use and I honestly dont think anyone would care if you used IE or FF and I think that we are moving towards that. In the meantime its just sad that IE commands such a large % of the browser market. It means that you have to take all IE users into consideration (IE6 mainly).

likwid · 24 Oct 2008 at 13:02

Ladforce said:
Well, my opening post was true, what person thought people who wanted to zoom in just wanted bigger text?

So.. from reading the previous posts as you suggested, the only argument seems to be ff3 is more standards compliant which is fair enough and by the way, yes I did know that.

Developers will always have to produce code that works on Microsofts latest browser as they have and always will have a massive proportion of the market so they should stop moaning about standards compliance and just get on with it. Suggesting people should change browser is just stupid, I mean, the casual user may not even know what firefox is so the site owner is immediately losing traffic.

Erm, the ability to increase font size is for people with sight deficiency, or just those who don't have their glasses. Pretty much one of the standard accessibility considerations.

no one is losing traffic for suggesting that users try another browser.

likwid · 24 Oct 2008 at 13:04

Oh, and why can't developers wish that MS would start producing a standard compliant browser? Or for that matter inform their users of a better browser?