A Red Rose (sorry only one pic)

ScarySquirrel · 5 Jul 2007 at 10:28

Nicos Rex said:
I really like the first shot.

Nicely judged composition, verges on the abstract, I LOVE the few imperfections that have not been retouched out, they save the whole shot - without them it would have seemed too perfect to be true.

For my taste, the shots with the water drops are too contrived and hackneyed. Perhaps a really tight crop on the last one just on the petal with the water drops on it may be better - the DoF is not deep enough for both the droplets and the centre of the flower.

Thanks for bringing up the depth of field.

It was my understand that it was mostly the aperture that controlled the DOF, these shots are at F22 and I thought having it at that meant you got a larger DOF, but I was struggling to get it all in focus. Does the long shutter speed mean the DOF is more shallow?

Thanks for comments.

Nicos Rex · 5 Jul 2007 at 10:38

DoF is detemined by aperture, focal length of lens and camera to subject distance.

Shutter speed has no influence.

The longer the focal length, and the shorter the camera to subject distance, the less DoF you will get.

For shots like the ones you have tried you should get into the habit of using the DoF preview button (assuming that your camera has one). As an aside, it astonishes me that a great many modern cameras have so many features which are of questionable utility but lack this (to me) fundamental and indispensible feature!

glitch · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:01

Nicos Rex said:
For shots like the ones you have tried you should get into the habit of using the DoF preview button (assuming that your camera has one). As an aside, it astonishes me that a great many modern cameras have so many features which are of questionable utility but lack this (to me) fundamental and indispensible feature!

Every SLR has a DOF preview function. You just need to know where to look for it.

ScarySquirrel · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:06

I did try using it but it just went very dark because I was using F22. SO I couldn't actually see what was in focus.

Would you suggest maybe taking the pic from further away and simply cropping it then in this situation?

glitch · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:09

ScarySquirrel said:
I did try using it but it just went very dark because I was using F22. SO I couldn't actually see what was in focus.

Shut both your eyes and keep them closed for about 60 seconds. Then put your dominant eye to the eyepiece, press the DOF preview button and all will become clear.

Your eye needs plenty of time to adjust to the change in light and you can either sit looking through the eyepiece until it does, or you can cheat a little.

Nicos Rex · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:10

glitch said:
Every SLR has a DOF preview function. You just need to know where to look for it.

Indeed. However, I did not limit my comment to SLRs - it is possible to spend a hell of a lot of money on a camera which has more shooting modes than you can shake a stick at but no DoF preview facility.

Nicos Rex · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:26

ScarySquirrel said:
I did try using it but it just went very dark because I was using F22. SO I couldn't actually see what was in focus.

Would you suggest maybe taking the pic from further away and simply cropping it then in this situation?

Further away and a crop may be an option but it will not have the same effect as the perspective will be different.

Other than the excellent suggestions above re acclimatising your eyes, there is nothing to stop you throwing a lot of light on the subject while you set the shot up so that you can see what you are doing and then turning it off for the "moment of truth".

glitch · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:29

Nicos Rex said:
Indeed. However, I did not limit my comment to SLRs - it is possible to spend a hell of a lot of money on a camera which has more shooting modes than you can shake a stick at but no DoF preview facility.

Sorry dear chap, wasn't having a go at you, although it looks that way from my post. And I completely missed that you weren't commenting about SLRs, so that's -2 points for me.

With the very different way that DOF works on non-SLR cameras, and their limited aperture range, would a DOF preview button work as effectively as it does with a SLR?

Messiah Khan · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:40

glitch said:
Every SLR has a DOF preview function. You just need to know where to look for it.

They do? Do you mean this literally? As I could do with this feature on my D40x if its hidden somewhere, or if there is some technique I could use.

glitch · 5 Jul 2007 at 11:54

Technique, sir.

If you don't have a DOF button, depress the 'lens release' button and twist the lens until the contacts on the lens are not touching the ones on the body. That should then make the lens stop down to your chosen DOF.

Never tried it myself, but I have it on relatively good authority that it works. I have my hat standing by if I need to feast upon it though.

Messiah Khan · 5 Jul 2007 at 12:02

glitch said:
Technique, sir.

If you don't have a DOF button, depress the 'lens release' button and twist the lens until the contacts on the lens are not touching the ones on the body. That should then make the lens stop down to your chosen DOF.

Never tried it myself, but I have it on relatively good authority that it works. I have my hat standing by if I need to feast upon it though.

Eeek, I think i'll give that a miss tbh. I don't like the idea of removing and adding the lens repeatedly to get the dof. This also would be of no use when doing insect macros as I don't use a tripod. So by the time id removed the lens, then clicked it back into place, I would have moved, or the subject would have moved. I think i'll just stick to imagining the dof from experience in my head.

Nicos Rex · 5 Jul 2007 at 12:02

glitch said:
With the very different way that DOF works on non-SLR cameras, and their limited aperture range, would a DOF preview button work as effectively as it does with a SLR?

Non SLR cameras for the first time have the ability to view through the taking lens by means of the display they have on the back, surely it would not be beyond the wit of man to have the facility to stop the lens down for DoF preview?

glitch · 5 Jul 2007 at 12:09

messiah khan said:
Eeek, I think i'll give that a miss tbh. I don't like the idea of removing and adding the lens repeatedly to get the dof. This also would be of no use when doing insect macros as I don't use a tripod. So by the time id removed the lens, then clicked it back into place, I would have moved, or the subject would have moved. I think i'll just stick to imagining the dof from experience in my head.

You're only rotating the lens until the contacts don't touch - there's no need to remove the lens and break the seal between lens and body.

Would be a bit tricky for your insect macros though!

Nicos Rex · 5 Jul 2007 at 12:38

messiah khan said:
Eeek, I think i'll give that a miss tbh. I don't like the idea of removing and adding the lens repeatedly to get the dof. This also would be of no use when doing insect macros as I don't use a tripod. So by the time id removed the lens, then clicked it back into place, I would have moved, or the subject would have moved. I think i'll just stick to imagining the dof from experience in my head.

Wanna borrow my F3? Your lenses will fit! Nice big button to do the job, and you can lock the mirror up as well

Messiah Khan · 5 Jul 2007 at 13:11

Nicos Rex said:
Wanna borrow my F3? Your lenses will fit! Nice big button to do the job, and you can lock the mirror up as well

Go away you oldie with your film camera.

Tbh, its a feature I wouldn't mind, but when out in the field taking the shots I don't really crave it. When using my macro lens, im seeing what it will look like at f2.8, which helps me get the focus spot on even if im stopping down a bit of the shot.

knowlesy · 5 Jul 2007 at 13:18

ScarySquirrel said:
I am not so keen on this one but thought I would post it anyway for C&C

could you not freeze it ?

alexisonfire · 5 Jul 2007 at 13:19

messiah khan said:
Go away you oldie with your film camera. Tbh, its a feature I wouldn't mind, but when out in the field taking the shots I don't really crave it. When using my macro lens, im seeing what it will look like at f2.8, which helps me get the focus spot on even if im stopping down a bit of the shot.

I think you should seriously consider a D80/D200 for your next purchase

DOF preview, increased noise handling and manual controls are all advantages for marco work

Messiah Khan · 5 Jul 2007 at 13:34

knowlesy said:
could you not freeze it ?

If done right, I think that could look well nice. Just make sure the droplets stay on, and maybe even try and get some iceicles developing.

alexisonfire said:
I think you should seriously consider a D80/D200 for your next purchase DOF preview, increased noise handling and manual controls are all advantages for marco work

Yeah, ive got my eye on a D200 for the next body upgrade. But I can't justify that for a long time yet. But even so, as far as I know the D40x uses the same sensor as the D200.

Nicos Rex · 5 Jul 2007 at 16:51

messiah khan said:
Go away you oldie with your film camera. Tbh, its a feature I wouldn't mind, but when out in the field taking the shots I don't really crave it. When using my macro lens, im seeing what it will look like at f2.8, which helps me get the focus spot on even if im stopping down a bit of the shot.

In 10 years time when the F3 is still going strong (and will have needed 2 whole sets of batteries) and you have had to upgrade 3 or 4 times you may be laughing on the other side of your face!!!

Seriously, the fact that you achieve the results which we see and get the DoF right by "guess & hope" is quite remarkable. I doff my headgear to you sir!

ScarySquirrel · 5 Jul 2007 at 19:05

Freezing it sounds like an awesome idea. Not sure my GF would be too happy though as they are hers. Might ask if I can just use one of them though