A return to form: Say hello to Banana MK2, the Italian Prancing Horse (Ferrari 458 Italia)

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Nothing to exciting but even though the Pzero have improved, no doubt from being re-scrubbed in I pulled the trigger on a set of PS4S tyres from Camskill at £790 all round as it just makes sense to me, car feels a little nervous on Pzero even though they are gripping better, so all being well will arrive in a day or two and be fitted this week or next, so urgent rush.

Also nothing too exciting but a few bits arrived today:




- Two rods to help wheel removal and remove any risk of damaging ceramic brakes
- Special socket to prevent damage to both wheels and the wheel nuts
- Forza valve controller so default is stock (ECU control) or I the fob allows permantly full open (very loud) or full closed (silent).

Stock exhaust is nice, but after hearing a Novitec Rosso, its a pure F1 scream so that may happen in future, exhaust and cats is 10k, but can get it done and fitted by Ferrari for 7k should I decide to pull trigger.

 

[Gibbo]

I have just one question, when you are sat at home with your epic M3, fun Renault and a 458 sat outside, just how nice a feeling is it?

Or, is it actually not that different a feeling from say the SVR sitting there?

Ok, that’s not one question, but I’m interested none the less.....

The Ferrari in many ways is lacking compared to the SVR, no crazy insane off line instant acceleration, no remote start, no heated wheel, but the Ferrari has some over powering feeling, I keep just driving it, I keeping driving the long way home or go pass home, I am having such a huge smile and half the time I am not even going fast, the car just evokes such insane emotion and is sheer pleasure to drive. Unfortunately the M3 or Clio have not moved since getting it.

The Ferrari has some niggles, they are either Ferrari niggles, for example for some reason when I get in it after work the first 10-20s of driving the car is hesitant like is miss firing or its gearbox warming up, but oddly first thing in morning it seems fine. So its either fouled spark plugs or just because Ferrari, I've mailed Ferrari for their response, if they say its normal I shall just change the spark plugs as good practice, if they feel its not I shall badger them to change plugs. Once you've driven for a minute, its spot on so its minor and I put it down to just being well a Ferrari with essentially a full on race engine in it.

Just odd how first thing in morning it does not do it, yet 8hr later it does, but the car also for first minute or so also is very slow to change gears, you pull paddle at 2500-3000rpm and its changed at 4000rpm, but owners say this is normal, I've learnt this now and just pull paddle at 2000rpm or put it in auto/wet mode which helps.

The car is simply insane to drive, I've never had a car that is such an event, you can drive at 20mph or 60mph and its just grin inducing, the noise it makes is out of this world. I am just as happy to change up full bore at 5-6k and the DCT is so damn sharp and quick, or leave it to rev out to around 9000rpm, I do need to weigh the car, but it feels super light. I was gonna fit my Lithium ION battery, but decided to not bother and sold it on for £500.

Just gonna get tyres fitted, titanium wheel nuts and enjoy driving it. Maybe an F1 Novitec exhaust system down the line and maybe some carbon stuff, but and exhaust and some carbon on this car is 20k and between me and you the carbon has zero impact on driving experience, the exhaust unknown I think it sounds awesome now, but the F1 systems sound insane and to drive a car that sounds just like the pre turbo F1 cars would be probably even more grin factor.

In short its freaking epic and I've not really opened it up, I am less bothered about the performance on this car, it just gives you incredible feels when you drive it, you kind of don't give a rats arse about there being faster cars, because this is simply in another world of pleasure to drive and enjoy, its such a total event and the engine is a master piece, yes its a little lazy under 3000rpm, though it will accelerate surprisingly well from 1500rpm, but as soon as you pass 3000rpm it just goes wild and never stops, feels very torquey, light and powerful.

 

[Gibbo]

Just a question, when it’s parked up at home or at work. Isit parked differently in terms of incline/decline?

Both flat but at home it is shielded from wind, at work it is in an open plan car park that gets quite a side wind, has caused issues before on other cars with the brakes locking on the rear when pulling off even after just being parked for a few hours.
Maybe in the morning it runs a little longer too and I reverse before I drive forward, no idea if makes a difference. Supposed could try selecting reverse next time at work, like I say missfire but in fact its not it can just be jerky or the throttle does little to nothing when selecting second, but it did idle rough for all of 2-3s, so maybe its just cold engine/gearbox and it being a Ferrari. Not many owners use them as DD's and certainly not in such a cold wet climate.

 

[Gibbo]

Sounds like a characteristic of the car due to temperature like you say. Doesn’t sound worrying at all.

I think likewise.

Many owners complain of jerky throttle as its cable like sensitive, so that is further exaggerated on a cold engine, hence just driving in wet/auto for first couple of minutes helps.
Still does no harm to let Ferrari know.

I also think I will change the spark plugs simply as good practice, a set of plugs is £240 though, NGK but can only be provided by Ferrari, then decide do I tackle myself or pay Ferrari or a specialist, most likely do latter, shall probably do brake pads myself as Brembo calipers so super easy, same as 911 was.

 

[Gibbo]

It sounds like the 458 is more of an event, over the SVR, which you’d expect.

But...

Sounds like the SVR could be the faster car point to point?

Too early to tell, certain from stop light to stop light, the SVR never lost a race to put it short, took down tuned GTR's, 911 Turbo's, car was a monster.

The Ferrari is more fun, feels faster when your not going faster, feels super light, am sure on a track or down a b-road they are both very evenly matched and both a lot of fun, but the Ferrari just feels even more fun, feels more special and makes you feel like a hero to drive it as it feels so race car.

 

[Gibbo]

Cool, thanks

This and Ferrari even happy to fit for me, they are a lot more friendly when it comes to mods compared to some other brands.

 

[Gibbo]

even including your mustang ?

Ford were sensible warranty is fine but the mod invalidates warranty on that part of car. Remap no engine warranty though sometimes Ford will still help.

I was thinking more Porsche who can be very against the most basic mods but as with all these things it’s about how you get on with your dealer. A good dealer does wonders for owner experience.

 

[Gibbo]

A friend of mine was refused a Porsche warranty as the car had aftermarket (albeit very professionally done) rear parking sensors on his 996 Turbo. Seems barmy that they can't just 'not cover' that part of the car.

That is unfortunately how Porsche are they can even refuse warranty due to tyres and wipers.

Ferrari is a lot less anal, you can fit any tyre you want, you can have an exhaust etc. Ferrari basically said mods are fine but no remains and if you cause an engine light due to a mod then warranty is invalid if the mod is believed to cause the issue.

There are a few 458’s for sale with exhaust from Ferrari with warranty.

I’ve being looking at Novitec F1 system with de-cats and OBD blocker to stop emissions light and Ferrari will fit and warranty it, so they are somewhat a different world if it’s Novitec it Capristo they seem happy to fit it under warranty. Not saying I will I like the stock sound but knowing me I’ll change it in a years time to spice up the car.

But I love the car and I’ve not driven it fast or hard yet just love driving it.

 

[Gibbo]

I heard something similar about using a non Moll (I.e. decent) battery invalidating the warranty

They were fine with it but it’s too tall to fit so sold it.

 

[Gibbo]

Is it though? If a car weighs a ton it's only 2%. Although i didn't realise batteries weighed that much, in something like a lotus I could see it making a difference but not in anything that weighs double that (also didn't realise they were that expensive, battery not the car).

20kg battery
20kg from diet
20kg from wheels
20kg from toolkit, tyre pump, tyre gel etc.
40kg from lighter seats


The above is not the Ferrari, but the point is it all adds up and the moment you've got 50kg out of a car, you can feel it, well I can, the moment you pull 100kg out it becomes really noticeable.

My M3 must have being 1440kg when I got it as was partially stripped, I got a further 100+ out, put a tad back in with cage, its now around 1330kg, but that additional 100kg out made a huge difference to acceleration, handling, braking and decreased wear and tear on the car.

It adds up, of course nothing beats removing unsprung mass, some say its worth two fold of normal mass, some say its even higher like triple/quad, all I will say is you notice it, even if its just a couple of kilos from each corner it can be felt in ride quality and turn in.

But on the Ferrari, would I notice 20kg from the battery, probably not, but if I'd say at somepoint fitted lighter wheels, more carbon and was upto 50kg you would, but that is not the plan for the car.

The battery was considered, because I own the battery, it is zero cost to do, but it is pointless because it won't fit, hence selling on. Mods for 458 are tyres, sort the brakes, maybe an exhaust down the road, I've being won over by the event of driving it, maybe its honey moon period, we shall see.

 

[Gibbo]

Fitted PS4S earlier, done 150 miles since.
But from mile one the difference was night and day and of course they’ll get better.

Car now accelerates full throttle in 1st, no wheelspin a little traction management but in CT Off the car is mental and has practically zero slip. Not like conditions were ideal being 8-12c today but the grip and feel is on another level.

The 458 is also much quicker in higher gears my friends 800HP Mustang does not really pull away from me as speeds increase and when it does it’s minimal. So this car is certainly quick and obviously a combination of short gearing and low weight.

Also fitted the titanium wheel bolts today, stock were 2.6kg and these weighed in at 1.5kg.

 

[Gibbo]

That's great to know, I'm definitely going for a set once I get a little use out of my P-Zero's (they almost new, so would be a little silly disposing of them already esp with the warmer weather coming).

Good news mate

Mine were almost new it’s just so shocking how bad they are.

 

[Gibbo]

So yep finding someone to fit the tyres was not so easy or finding a garage you can trust, I'd forget about a local company who did custom van installs who also have tyre and balancing equipment and also confirmed they had black wheel weights. As a day trip was planned it was all a bit tight to fit it in, but manage to get two tyres to them in Clio, then drove Ferrari down and then borrowed one of their vans to go and get the two remaining tyres:




No power tools were used and they used my tools, so the Ferrari rods to ensure safe removal of wheels to prevent damaging the expensive ceramic disc and my own socket that protects the wheel bolts from getting scratched.



















The weight difference between the wheel nuts, won't and can't feel that kind of difference, but its a damn good feel factor.
















Nice to discover the factory coilovers have height adjust as standard so I can lower or raise the car should I wish, that is the next modification to get a proper alignment on the car done by a Ferrari specialist to remove some the factory dialled in understeer though the new tyres have eliminated a lot of that, but several owners have recommended its yet another transformation and worth doing and I shall probably drop the car about 5mm all round.











Met up with my buddy Baz, for our road trip, happy to say the Ferrari holds onto this beast in a straight line better than the SVR did, so the 458 is clearly mighty mighty fast and feels fast even when your just doing 50mph.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

So managed to cover over 100 miles, the new tyres within mile one were a transformation over the Pzero, gripping better stone cold than the Pzero did at 40c plus, yes the Ferrari has temperature sensors for tyres because Ferrari and Formula 1, its got all the fancy toys.

More into the drive, more confidence, huge feel and huge grip can truly feel advantage of mid-engine now, car just turns in on a dime now instead of push and I am still re-adjusting to how early I can get on the power out of a corner, got too use to front engine RWD cars.

Some more photos from meeting up with some other buddies:








I am still learning this car but the handling is just incredible, I think the best compliment is it has the same kind of feedback and feel as my 997.1 had which had a lot of GT3 under pinnings, but this just sounds in another league, accelerates at an incredible pace and it feels so light, in many weighs it feels like driving a go-kart on the road but with insane power. Plus then that is just the magical way the car makes you feel.

I was very tempted to try LC yesterday but wimped out in case the tyres are still greasy. Certainly did a few none LC launches and car launches far more aggressive now in race mode, the traction system is so advanced it can clearly detect available grip and now there is more grip its launching harder, though TC light still flickering. Tried a couple in CT OFF mode and it was savage, again no LC and its certainly very quick and the acceleration above 60 is so raw and rapid. Think the combination of short gearing as all 7 gears are for acceleration, there is no overdrive, of course its very light in comparison to other cars, for instance it weighs less than a BMW M2 and being NA the power is always building right upto 9200rpm though don't think I've being to 9000rpm yet as I simply use the steering wheel LEDs and always change on 4th or 5th LED.

I've also got a landmark, use for all my cars, this car is the new record holder.
it is a hugely impressive car, I've found new highs for favourite corners, roundabouts and crazy thing is its Winter, not even Summer yet, I can see why the Speciale is so insane with its Trofeo R or Cup 2 tyres, not a path I want to go down as its more than good enough but most importantly you can corner at half its ability and feel like your Michael Schumacher behind the wheel, it feels insanely special to drive at all speeds.

I am so glad I went with the Ferrari over the Lambo, yes I feel the Lambo would be even quicker, particular straight line but almost felt dull in comparison, I can still see myself in a Performante at some point in the future, but as I have a real dislike for turbo charged stuff and that is the way everything is going the sensible choice could be just stick with this totally incredible machine.

 

[Gibbo]

I'd imagine aero starts to play more of a part at 80-100mph+ The mustang must loose out on more than a few hp there.

Am sure it’s an 800HP beast and it would pull from the SVR once past 80, even more so past 100. The Ferrari in comparison holds on better which is a surprise as the SVR was making 610HP but the SVRs gearing was its downside as 4th and above were too long, if Jaguar had kept 7th for acceleration and only used 8th as an overdrive they could have had shorter gearing for 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th to keep it more accelerative at higher speeds. I understand their reasoning for economy and also maybe for making 200mph plus possible.

One area the Ferrari lacks, it drinks fuel at an astonishing rate, I reckon it’s not seeing much over 20 on a run and is for sure seeing single digits in normal use, thirsty these Ferrari’s. The downside of not having a long lazy 8th gear as at motorway speeds the 458 is around 3500rpm of course that’s a bit offset as other cars don’t rev to 9000rpm plus.

 

[Gibbo]

I'm starting to think yellow is my new favourite colour on performance cars. That 'Stang is gorgeous in the colour too!

Nearly everyone who has seen the Ferrari have either said should have got red or have said I’d have got red but now seeing this yellow it is for sure the better choice.

Yes Mustangs look ace in any colour but yellow works so well and with Jons Lambo and a mates yellow Camaro and other mate with a yellow M4 we’re planning a Southern trip for the Summer so those five shall be quite a sight on the roads, yellow monsters.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Sorry for not so many updates, the car has being used every day without fail, poor M3 and Clio not getting a look in, this thing is so good its just bonkers good! Never before have I had a car that can fire out a corner or roundabout like this, its so frantic and such a case of just hold on I often find myself chickening out even though the car is begging for more, the ability is uncanny.

Anyway a few Mustangs buddies were having a free dyno runs at rotary revs which are pretty much Europes no.1 rotary specialist, but they also specialise in tuning the NA and super charged Mustangs. Their dyno is fine for power runs but does take a lot more time to setup as its more a tuning dyno, its a first for me as it was a hub dyno, so no damage to tyres etc and their dyno cell is like a fridge, very much like Powerstations old setup cooling wise, very effective. We only did one power run anything to prevent any heat issues, then waiting ten minutes and did another, first run 509 and second 511, both at wheels.


The dyno graph:





Having heard stories of 458's not making claimed 562HP I went in expecting as little as 440WHP and maybe if it was a good one around 480WHP.
So to leave with 511HP wheel power I was over moon, especially as we did not rev until limiter for simple fact of not wanting to hit the limiter.

Other cars that ran:
Ecoboost with Cobb tune & intake: 295WHP
V8 Mustang with MY18 Intake manifold, Kooks Headers, CAI, Exhaust: 440WHP tuned by MAP
V8 Mustang with Roush Stage 2 Supercharger: 625WHP
Mac's 666 Yellow Beast: 661WHP (Spark plugs fouled)
Mickey's Gen2 Whipple 3.750 Pulley: 681WHP tuned by MAP
Clives Gen2 Whipple 3.6250 Pulley: 722WHP & 566lb/ft at wheels tuned by MAP

Tomorrow a very special yellow Mustang is attending, that should be close to 900WHP, gunning for 1000BHP crank.

Absolutely over the moon my car made the numbers it did, of course I've put close to 1000 miles on it now, all Vpower99 which maybe helps, this puts it around 585HP crank, which may explain why its as quick as Mac's Mustang pretty much, even on a roll, as its got plenty of power, low weight and short gear ratios, plus DCT helps a lot. Be interesting to see what it gets at Pod, its certainly quite a bit quicker than the SVR once rolling.


Some more pictures from the day:























The tuner and dyno operators were impressed with how flat and strong the torque curve was for what is a highly strung engine and said that much power NA must be a sheer joy to drive, which is absolutely is.

So great to know the car is very healthy, backs up my thoughts of it feeling strong, I drove a total of four 458's and the first and one this felt quicker for sure.

 

[Gibbo]

Do you need any special thread grease for the titanium bolts? When I looked at them for the mini, there seemed to be various opinions on the internets.

Put them in dry, when it goes for service I will ask Ferrari see what they say and if they recommend a specific grease they can do it when its in for service.

 

[Gibbo]

Amazing looking car. Also what has been done to that RX-8?

They had load of RX8's and RX7's, in short it was pretty much a race car.

 

[Gibbo]

Is 10% pretty much standard for loss (i assume most manufacturers quote engine HP rather than wheel HP as its higher, does torque drop too, or is that the same?).

Well there is no such thing as fixed percentage really but a general rule of thumb is:

Hub dyno:
FWD manual: 7-9%
RWD manual: 9-11%
AWD manual: 15%

Wheel dyno:
FWD manual: 10-12%
RWD manual: 12-15%
AWD manual: 20%

Automatics generally lose more but what is an unknown really.