Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[Chuk_Chuk]

Which matters not one...single...bit. Everyone wants to see great cup finals at Wembley, yet they tend to be boring 1-0 affairs closely contested with minimal goals.

Football games don't have the referee mandating that teams can no longer attack and are only permitted to pass the ball round the back.

That does not mean you throw procedures and rules out the window to get a spectacle. There would be uproar. Apparently F1 is a different beast now and can be manipulated as they deem fit "for the fans"..

I never said they should. In fact I said the opposite.

Real "fans" would rather see fairness and would accept it fine if it came in under SC as the race was already played out frankly. Hamilton had won.

#Gatekeeping
Also you do realise that the other option, that was within the rules was to not let the lapped cars unlap themselves and call in the SC?

 

[Jono8]

I read it as to clear the crash from the track - especially given we don't know exactly how delayed the radio message actually was - could easily have been at least a lap earlier than it aired (as frequently is the case)

"racing laps"

 

[Freakbro]

An interesting read if you want to see the full timeline of events: https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14...d-the-destiny-of-the-2021-world-championship/

Particularly the time it took for Latifi to get out and the cleanup of the debris etc.

This is the bit I think where people are over egging it a little

As McLaren’s Lando Norris said, bringing Hamilton and Verstappen together on track for a final-lap restart looked like it was made “for TV”. It also ignored the strategic decisions teams had made based on the FIA communicating that no passing would take place.

Look at the timeline

18:21 Safety Car deployed
18:23 Double yellow in track sector 15
18:27 Lapped cars will not be allowed to overtake
18:31 Lapped cars 4 (NOR) – 14 (ALO) – 31 (OCO) – 16 (LEC) – 5 (VET) to overtake Safety Car
18:31 Safety Car in this lap

The place where people made their decision to pit or not under the safety car is made pretty quickly after a SC is called. The teams were told no passing would take place 6 minutes after the SC was deployed. Cars had already pitted or not by then and would be bunching up under the SC at that point.

What "strategic decisions" would have been made in those 4 minutes between 18.27 and 18.31 - no-one would pit at that point as you'd drop to the back of the pack.

 

[Mr Jack]

Given this was Perez's first season in a very different car, I think he did extremely well. Overall had a lot of ups and downs, but was there when it mattered. Will be interesting to see where things are next year with the new cars.

He's certainly the only second driver in recent years to do anything decent in that Red Bull, and I'll forgive him the first part of the season on those grounds but a driver of Pérez's experience shouldn't be qualifying so far back through the latter part of the season in a car that good. Like you, I look forward to seeing how he does next year.

 

[BeeP]

Honestly I thought Horners "one lap" comment was meant for cars unlapping themselves and not "give us a lap to win as it is all we need".

I thought this was cleared up already?

 

[adam cool dude]

By definition a lap spent clearing the crash from the track is not a racing lap.

I know it is blaringly obvious but people still want to think that it was a fair result. Something went on because regardless whether the RD made a mistake or not. Every decision after the first one of no un-lapping of cars seemed like pressure from somewhere to put Max in the best possible position to win the championship.

This is the world we live in now with the way media works. They actually think the vast majority of people are dumb enough to not see it which in reality is most likely true.

 

[Jono8]

This is the bit I think where people are over egging it a little



Look at the timeline



The place where people made their decision to pit or not under the safety car is made pretty quickly after a SC is called. The teams were told no passing would take place 6 minutes after the SC was deployed. Cars had already pitted or not by then and would be bunching up under the SC at that point.

What "strategic decisions" would have been made in those 4 minutes between 18.27 and 18.31 - no-one would pit at that point as you'd drop to the back of the pack.

yes it obviously meant the strategic decisions when the safety car was called.

It was pretty much impossible for them to clear the car , debris, have all cars unlap themselves and then wait another lap for the safety car to come in as per the rules.

The Merc strategy call was the correct one based on the rules. the Red Bull one was a hail mary because that is all they could do.

 

[Kenai]

F1 Unfiltered, all driver's radio from the safety car period; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K469WuoDJTw

Pretty damning, especially Ricciardo and Sainz (and Stroll). What a ****show.

Vettel

"They did the fire thing"

 

[Freakbro]

Something went on because regardless whether the RD made a mistake or not. Every decision after the first one of no un-lapping of cars seemed like pressure from somewhere to put Max in the best possible position to win the championship.

You have no proof it was done to benefit Max over the given reason of wanting the race to be decided under Green flag conditions. I honestly believe if it was the other way around and Lewis had pitted and Max stayed out then Masi would have made the same decision regarding getting the race underway asap.

I'm not saying he was right to break the rules, I'm just not going with the narrative it was done just so Max could win.

 

[Jono8]

You have no proof it was done to benefit Max over the given reason of wanting the race to be decided under Green flag conditions. I honestly believe if it was the other way around and Lewis had pitted and Max stayed out then Masi would have made the same decision regarding getting the race underway asap.

I'm not saying he was right to break the rules, I'm just not going with the narrative it was done just so Max could win.

What do you mean there is no proof that it was done to benefit Max? For that to be true it would mean that the Race Director has no idea how Formula 1 and its cars work.

He will have definitely known that making up his own rule and only letting the cars between Lewis and Max unlap themselves and then bringing the safety car in immediately would benefit Max massively.

 

[Skyboat]

Horner saying they needed 1 lap is just them begging for a restart because they knew if it finished under the SC Max would lose the title.

Horner's not an idiot. He knew 1 lap is all that was needed with the colossal tyre advantage now in play.

 

[adam cool dude]

You have no proof it was done to benefit Max over the given reason of wanting the race to be decided under Green flag conditions. I honestly believe if it was the other way around and Lewis had pitted and Max stayed out then Masi would have made the same decision regarding getting the race underway asap.

I'm not saying he was right to break the rules, I'm just not going with the narrative it was done just so Max could win.

The way he backtracked and made the rules as he went along showed me that there was pressure from somewhere to change.

As for no proof why were only cars between Max and Hamilton allowed to un lap themselves and the safety car put in a lap early than it should have been. All these decisions were made after Max had pitted for softs. Hamilton had a 12 second lead and it was massively apparent that Max had no chance.

I seriously hope this does go to court. I couldn't care less whether Max keeps his WDC. He was obviously a deserving champion but sometimes a deserving champion doesn't always win. It means nothing to me but to prove that foul play was at work and the outcome was rigged will.

 

[jaybee]

Honestly I thought Horners "one lap" comment was meant for cars unlapping themselves and not "give us a lap to win as it is all we need".

I thought this was cleared up already?

Horner meant basically "come on, we all only need 1 more racing lap to make it a good ending to the race". Which translates obviously to come on get on with it, we can now win. Even if he did mean "come on you only need 1 lap to get that car out the way" it's effectively the same manipulation he is trying to achieve. Horner wanted the safety car in asap. I don't really take issue with that. We've come to expect live bidding and manipulation by Horner. Toto has had to do the same. It is usually started by RB. The one at Silverstone and Brazil were both started by RB live on air as I recall. I mean it needs to stop entirely from any teams but hey.

 

[Freakbro]

What do you mean there is no proof that it was done to benefit Max? For that to be true it would mean that the Race Director has no idea how Formula 1 and its cars work.

He will have definitely known that making up his own rule and only letting the cars between Lewis and Max unlap themselves and then bringing the safety car in immediately would benefit Max massively.

That was the consequence not the reason.

There's quite a few people saying ITT and beyond that if it had been the other way around then the race would have finished under the SC ie: the whole thing was fixed to make sure Max won. I just don't believe that *shrug*

 

[Jono8]

That was the consequence not the reason.

There's quite a few people saying ITT and beyond that if it had been the other way around then the race would have finished under the SC ie: the whole thing was fixed to make sure Max won. I just don't believe that *shrug*

it doesnt really matter what you "believe". All that matters is what happened.

The absurd rule Masi invented/pulled out of his bottom did fix it so Max won.

 

[jaybee]

What I also find so cringe, is that Massi finally decided to grow a pair and try to tell Toto "it's a motor race" in response to Toto complaining. It's taken him all season to finally try to shut one of them down and a) he choses Toto and b) The final race of the season where he's made the worst decisions in history of F1. I think Massi has always been more scared to deal with Redbull than Merc. I don't really know why that is other than some form of corruption or expectation. Both are generally polite on the comms. I don't condone any live comms bidding during the live race but Massi really has crumbled under the pressure there. You could hear him stutter and his voice crack on a couple of occasions this season. He's failed in his role.

 

[adam cool dude]

What I also find so cringe, is that Massi finally decided to grow a pair and try to tell Toto "it's a motor race" in response to Toto complaining. It's taken him all season to finally try to shut one of them down and a) he choses Toto and b) The final race of the season where he's made the worst decisions in history of F1. I think Massi has always been more scared to deal with Redbull than Merc. I don't really know why that is other than some form of corruption or expectation. Both are generally polite on the comms. I don't condone any live comms bidding during the live race but Massi really has crumbled under the pressure there. You could hear him stutter and his voice crack on a couple of occasions this season. He's failed in his role.

I will put money on him not being RD next season which in itself is accepting what went wrong.

 

[Jono8]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...n-hamilton-f1-title-would-be-fitting/6884947/

Sky Formula 1 pundit Martin Brundle says he wishes that Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen could share the world championship, in the wake of the controversial Abu Dhabi season finale.

I would actually be open to that as a resolution. Max gets his first and Lewis gets his 8th. Fire Masi and make it right.

 

[Freakbro]

As for no proof why were only cars between Max and Hamilton allowed to un lap themselves and the safety car put in a lap early than it should have been.

I could be wrong and happy to be corrected but I thought that was because they didn't have time for them to be unlapped and still get a race lap in? They were coming to the end of the lap (if iirc) as it was hence the last minute panic/rush to come up with a solution to make it work.

All these decisions were made after Max had pitted for softs.

Well yes, but that's because Max and others took the gamble when the SC was called and jumped in the pits to get new tyres, so it wasn't just RB that thought there was a chance of the race restarting anyway.

It means nothing to me but to prove that foul play was at work and the outcome was rigged will.

If it is ever shown that the race was intentionally fixed to make Max the champion then I'd change my opinion in a heartbeat.

 

[EddScott]

Almost certainly not. Max would have had a lot of ground to make up to not only make up the distance 5 backmarkers would have left between him and Lewis, but to also get past them all. Remember, they are all still in their own race. Yes they would have let him go where they could, but its pretty inconceivable that Max would have been close enough to Lewis to overtake him.

Ah, apologies. I meant whether or not just the 5 or all lapped cars were allowed to pass.