Abu Dhabi Prix 2015, Yas Marina - Race 19/19

[smr]

The problem with any team that has Alonso in it is they end up having to micro manage him, instead of getting on with managing the car and the rest of the team. it deflects their priorities all the time, look what happened at McLaren with him.
I feel that JB has given a master class lesson to Alonso in driving and how to get the team upon JB's side and once again he is winning the pyschological battle at the team, just as he seems to have done in the past. All that Alonso is doing is stirring up bad feeling towards himself.

This year, despite the car, luck and reliability Button has been the better driver of the two, he's happier, seems to have the team around him more and is probably liked more in the team I'd imagine too. He doesn't seem to let these so called "best drivers in the paddock" get to him and actually relishes the challenge of driving against them. Alonso has not done anything to demonstrate why he is on more than double the salary of Button for instance, Jenson beat him in Qualifying and Race stats this year... although tbf you can only take that with a pinch of salt, but there have been times where the cars have both finished the race, where they have both been fine in qualifying and Button has a lot of the time had the upperhand.

It'll be interesting to see how they compare next year - in what will hopefully be a lot quicker car and a lot more reliable, that's where the real test will come.

 

[Skeeter]

snip

2007 and 2010 he was in a car that could have won. Both times it was close enough that 'being the best driver on the grid' would have been enough to pip the others to the post. Both times he didn't do it.

2008 and 2009 were a situation he created for himself, including being a blatant cheat. 2011, 2013 and 2014 I agree he was never going to beat Vettel/Hamilton. 2015 is entirely his own doing, and 2016 will be too.

Hardly the record you would expect from 'the best driver on the grid'. A few impressive years, 2 title years, and then a decade of poor decisions, cheating, and mediocre performances. Don't forget this is a guy who should have been banned from the sport for cheating, twice!

 

[alx]

I can see them dropping Hamilton, pretty sure there's a pressure somewhere in Merc to have German driver win in German car. I was thinking the other day that if they knew they were going to have such a dominant car when they signed Hamilton that they would have gone with another German driver instead.

If this is the case why did they give Hamilton a new 3 year contract in May, starting next year, worth £100 million?

If anything Rosberg is the one at risk as his deal ends after the 2016 season, but with an option to extend. Would be very expensive for them to axe Hamilton.

 

[smr]

2007 and 2010 he was in a car that could have won. Both times it was close enough that 'being the best driver on the grid' would have been enough to pip the others to the post. Both times he didn't do it.

2008 and 2009 were a situation he created for himself, including being a blatant cheat. 2011, 2013 and 2014 I agree he was never going to beat Vettel/Hamilton. 2015 is entirely his own doing, and 2016 will be too.

Hardly the record you would expect from 'the best driver on the grid'. A few impressive years, 2 title years, and then a decade of poor decisions, cheating, and mediocre performances. Don't forget this is a guy who should have been banned from the sport for cheating, twice!

If Alonso was at Mercedes last year and this year do you think he would have won both titles, just the one or none?

 

[dannyjo22]

2007 and 2010 he was in a car that could have won. Both times it was close enough that 'being the best driver on the grid' would have been enough to pip the others to the post. Both times he didn't do it.

2008 and 2009 were a situation he created for himself, including being a blatant cheat. 2011, 2013 and 2014 I agree he was never going to beat Vettel/Hamilton. 2015 is entirely his own doing, and 2016 will be too.

Hardly the record you would expect from 'the best driver on the grid'. A few impressive years, 2 title years, and then a decade of poor decisions, cheating, and mediocre performances. Don't forget this is a guy who should have been banned from the sport for cheating, twice!

He got close because of who he was. In the same way MS did against JV in 97. Neither pulled it off but that doesn't mean they weren't the better driver. There is only so much you can do.

I agree with the ban stuff, by the same token Hamilton should have been banned, unless anyone is naive enough to think only Alonso knew Mclaren were cheating ****s. Pedro shouldn't have been let near a car again either. As I have said time and time again they must all have known even more than came out because there was no reason at all to keep the test driver on the pay roll. A contractor who cost the team millions in fines and reputation.

Clearly much more was going on than we ever know. There's no way this stuff was being discussed without Hamilton also knowing. He too is quite prepared to lie to throw a team member under the bus.

But then the drivers make so little difference these days and senna and prost were no better.

 

[KiNgPiN83]

If this is the case why did they give Hamilton a new 3 year contract in May, starting next year, worth £100 million?

If anything Rosberg is the one at risk as his deal ends after the 2016 season, but with an option to extend. Would be very expensive for them to axe Hamilton.

That's what i thought. If they wanted to go all German they could have signed one after Schumacher retired but they didn't. I literally think all they care about is winning. Who does the winning is irrelevant. (As long as said drive IS actually winning)

 

[deuse]

If Alonso was at Mercedes last year and this year do you think he would have won both titles, just the one or none?

No one will ever know. So a bit of a loaded question.

 

[Skeeter]

He got close because of who he was. In the same way MS did against JV in 97. Neither pulled it off but that doesn't mean they weren't the better driver. There is only so much you can do.

I agree with the ban stuff, by the same token Hamilton should have been banned, unless anyone is naive enough to think only Alonso knew Mclaren were cheating ****s. Pedro shouldn't have been let near a car again either. As I have said time and time again they must all have known even more than came out because there was no reason at all to keep the test driver on the pay roll. A contractor who cost the team millions in fines and reputation.

Clearly much more was going on than we ever know. There's no way this stuff was being discussed without Hamilton also knowing. He too is quite prepared to lie to throw a team member under the bus.

But then the drivers make so little difference these days and senna and prost were no better.

Thats all your own opinion and speculation. The facts are that the investigation found evidence of both Alonso and de la Rosa being actively involved in the cheating, and no evidence that Hamilton was. Had there been enough to go on without needing to give the drivers immunity in order to extract evidence then Alonso and de la Rosa would have been punished for cheating alongside the McLaren team. Hamilton wouldn't have been.

Obviously the pure truth may be different (I'm with you, there's no way Hamilton didn't know, in the same way there's no way Alonso didn't know Piquet crashed on purpose), but the evidence that we have from the investigation proves Alonso was a cheat.

No one will ever know. So a bit of a loaded question.

Of course its a loaded question, its smr. There will be a link back to Button in a moment, you watch...

No smr, I don't think Alonso would have won any title if he was driving a Mercedes alongside Hamilton for the last couple of years. Evidence shows that a) he can't beat Hamilton, and b) he doesn't cope well with a close running team mate when in a title battle.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I don't know what you mean Skeeter... it's not as if he's one of those guys that when he begs his team to tell his team mate to move out of the way and the team tell him no he'll, you know, threaten to leak e-mails if he isn't given preferential treatment then try and sink the team when they refuse. Oh wait, likewise a huge contract at Ferrari probably had nothing to do with that action directly against their biggest rival. Also the massive gap between Massa and Alonso had nothing to do with that team showing Massa in the first year that he would be told to get out of the way if Alonso told them to. That day Massa became the clear no.2 and didn't do anything of note till he left Ferrari.

Alonso wouldn't have won at Mercedes as Mercedes wouldn't have told Hamilton to move over for him.

Is there a driver who has reacted worse to team mates who don't move over or teams that don't accommodate his request? Earlier in his career he weaved ahead of someone almost causing a collision in practice, somewhat swerved towards a guy after the race ended because he hadn't let him pass easily(with no reason to do so). Blocked a team mate in the garage when he can't beat him on the track in qualifying, burns a team down if he doesn't get his own way oh and is part of a scandal to cause a crash and safety car so he can get a win.

 

[dannyjo22]

Thats all your own opinion and speculation. ..

Yes exactly, in the same way you say Alonso should be banned for the piquet thing. There's no evidence of that either

Evidence shows that a) he can't beat Hamilton, and b) he doesn't cope well with a close running team mate when in a title battle.

A. Over one season, where the team boss did his level best to **** him.
B. Neither does Hamilton. He didn't cope well with Alonso despite the team bumming him, he turned into Britney Spears when things were going well for Button. He barely coped with Rosberg at all last year despite their being zero evidence that Rosberg was faster than him, he just couldn't cope with someone having plain more luck. Imagine if Rosberg was actually fast enough to threaten him properly. I think there's far more evidence to show how little it takes to get under Lewis's skin.

 

[drunkenmaster]

You keep saying it but what exactly did Ron do to screw with Alonso, was it the millions in a contract or was it helping him to 2 wins early in the season? Maybe it was just that when Hamilton was ahead of Alonso and Alonso couldn't pass him he didn't get on the radio and tell Hamilton to move over?

Alonso instigated every bad thing that happened to him at Mclaren with his own actions. The team pitted ALonso first with no problems, it was Alonso who purposefully blocked Hamilton and the stewards who took away his pole position.

He 'barely' coped with Rosberg.... in as much as beating him easily over the season despite much worse luck? What happened, his team mate literally hit him on purpose, if that was Alonso either he or Rosberg wouldn't have been at the team this year. he'd either demand Rosberg was gone, demand to have Rosberg let him pass in every race or do something to sabotage the team and leave the next year.

People like you are the ones who painted the picture in 2011. Hamilton completely outdrove Button that season, points mean very little. At 9/10 races he looked consistently the faster driver as he has against Rosberg. That doesn't mean there aren't times he put in a bad qualifying lap. People decided to take every bad race and make it about anything that happened to him that week. If Massa hit him off... while Hamilton was ahead of Button usually and showing a pace Button wasn't capable of somehow being punted off was framed as Button being faster because he got more points that weekend and it could only be as a result of a break up with his girlfriend rather than a **** piece of driving from Massa, Webber or Maldonado.

2011 wasn't his best year, it wasn't 1/100th as bad as frankly only Hamilton haters portray it. Funny that Hamilton didn't continue to have the same kind of incidents after 2011 yet Massa still cuts in on people knocking himself and others out of races 4 years later.

AS for Hamilton not coping with Alonso... he completely out drove the reigning world champ and pushed Alonso as far as to sabotage the team in as dramatic a way as has ever been done in F1 because he was so frustrated with being beaten.

Anyone that even frames 2007 as a year Hamilton didn't cope well is trolling. It was an epic year for him, only lacking a championship win thanks to two woeful team decisions on strategy.

 

[alx]

Yes exactly, in the same way you say Alonso should be banned for the piquet thing. There's no evidence of that either



A. Over one season, where the team boss did his level best to **** him.
B. Neither does Hamilton. He didn't cope well with Alonso despite the team bumming him, he turned into Britney Spears when things were going well for Button. He barely coped with Rosberg at all last year despite their being zero evidence that Rosberg was faster than him, he just couldn't cope with someone having plain more luck. Imagine if Rosberg was actually fast enough to threaten him properly. I think there's far more evidence to show how little it takes to get under Lewis's skin.

How did he barely cope? Yes he tends to whine a bit at times, although that's hardly new for F1 drivers, but when you look at the results it doesn't show him not being able to cope. In the second half of the season he won 5 races in a row, and 6 out of 7 of the last races. I tend to think with Hamilton that he often makes his opinion known (maybe too much), but it doesn't appear to affect his performances.

 

[dannyjo22]

His whole manner was one of defeat, interviews about it being over and woe is me. He's lucky it was only Rosberg and not a genuine threat. What he should have been focusing on was how Rosberg never beat him on pace. It's not like Rosberg is even any good at mind games.

And of course it effects his performance. Look at the one year button beat him. My god he was a mess because everything in the world was not going his way. In fact I can't think of another driver I have ever seen collapse under the weight of so much woe is me.

 

[Skeeter]

Yes exactly, in the same way you say Alonso should be banned for the piquet thing. There's no evidence of that either

The fact Alonso 'the best driver on the grid' made what was to everyone else a stupidly timed pitstop without even a hint of questioning why is enough evidence to prove he knew what was going on.

 

[dannyjo22]

The fact Alonso 'the best driver on the grid' made what was to everyone else a stupidly timed pitstop without even a hint of questioning why is enough evidence to prove he knew what was going on.

That's still not evidence of any sort. I'm not saying he didn't know but it's hardly concrete enough to punish him on anymore than it's pretty obvious Hamilton knew Mclaren are cheating thieves and you can hardly take him at his word, proven liar that he is. I'd have hung Alonso out to dry for the mclaren thing but I don't get the option. I'd have banned MS for a year too for jerez and senna for japan. F1 isn't interested in taking a proper stance with punishments if it keeps the big names out.

 

[Skeeter]

True, but like I said Hamilton was investigated and they found nothing, whereas Alonso seemed to just be ignored during the Piquet thing, and the FIA did take a pretty strong stance, even if it was then overturned.

 

[JRS]

Leaving aside Spygate and who knew what, I'm still bemused by how little McLaren were punished for lying to the stewards at the 2009 Aussie GP. A team widely held at the time on here to have been the victim of bias against them at the FIA was caught out lying to the stewards of the meeting in order to get another driver penalised so their guy could get a single lousy point extra....and they only get DQ'd from the race and a suspended 3-race ban.

But yeah, it was of course always Ferrari who got the breaks from officialdom eh guys?

 

[alx]

His whole manner was one of defeat, interviews about it being over and woe is me. He's lucky it was only Rosberg and not a genuine threat. What he should have been focusing on was how Rosberg never beat him on pace. It's not like Rosberg is even any good at mind games.

And of course it effects his performance. Look at the one year button beat him. My god he was a mess because everything in the world was not going his way. In fact I can't think of another driver I have ever seen collapse under the weight of so much woe is me.

I tend to think he overplays it for whatever reason, vents/whines in public as annoying as it is. I genuinely don't think he's affected by things as much as people think, even if he gives the impression he is.
The fact you have to reference a different season is quite telling - if it affects his performance so much why did he have such a strong 2nd half of the 2014 season?

 

[Skeeter]

Leaving aside Spygate and who knew what, I'm still bemused by how little McLaren were punished for lying to the stewards at the 2009 Aussie GP. A team widely held at the time on here to have been the victim of bias against them at the FIA was caught out lying to the stewards of the meeting in order to get another driver penalised so their guy could get a single lousy point extra....and they only get DQ'd from the race and a suspended 3-race ban.

But yeah, it was of course always Ferrari who got the breaks from officialdom eh guys?

Ferrari have ultimate say in everything and anything in F1 both regulatory and commercial. Getting slapped wrists for being naughty is child's play.

 

[JRS]

Ferrari have ultimate say in everything and anything in F1 both regulatory and commercial. Getting slapped wrists for being naughty is child's play.

Not....entirely sure what that has to do with McLaren getting off almost scot-free for lying to race stewards in order to get a competitor penalised, but....okay then!