Advice needed on setting up a 'proper' small network

Big.Wayne

Big.Wayne

Big.Wayne

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Joined
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Hi,

I would like some advice please on setting up a 'proper' network in a small office.

At the moment there are just two machines and I have set it up really nOOby style, the first machine has the USB-modem/ADSL connection and all the printers installed on it and the second machine is just connected by a single cross-over cable. Both machines access their emails via Pop 3 and the main machine is backed up via an external hard drive . . . . lol like I said basic! :D

Now I have a laptop (3rd machine) and have no way to connect it, I also would like to build a small server and have it do server type things!

I could almost 'fudge' it just by using built in WinXP sharing folders and ICS etc but there is some functionality that is missing at the moment.

I have some basic network knowledge and I am thinking I would like to be able to:

1) Have all the data stored on the (Raid-1) Server somehow, in one easy place to backup

2) Have a Broadband-Router thingy, and have all the machines networked through that (always on).

3) Upgrade the email system from the simple Pop3 style, we have our own domain name and stuff but atm we pay some company 0.69p/Month to store our emails and we then access them via Outlook express. Think what I'm getting at here is a mail server but I'm not sure how that works?

4) If a user deletes a file on the network I want to be able to 'undelete' them if possible (is that the backup?)

Do I need something like Small Business Server (never used it before) or can I wing it with WinXP.

Thanks for reading, sorry there is so many questions but I'm keen to know what next step I take . . thanks! :)
 
You will need windows server for roaming profiles, allthough it can be done for nout with linux and a bit of grey matter. Oh and don't bother with your own mail server on a home connection, there is too much potential for problems.
 
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Clarkey said:
don't bother with your own mail server on a home connection, there is too much potential for problems.
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Hi thanks for reply!

Sorry I forgot to mention its BT Business broadband if that makes a difference?

Is it only a leased-line thing that can have a mail server connected to it?

I only mentioned the mail server thing because my boss wanted a way to access his stuff (files, email etc) from any computer and I can't work out any other way to do that except having a proper 'central' mail server?

Lol I feel like a total nOOblet! :D
 
You don't need a specific broadband connection to host your own mail server, but you do need a static IP address to get it working properly.

From the sounds of it you need to buy an ADSL router/modem to share out your connection and to use as a networking switch as well. You should be able to pick one of these up for around £30 for a decent one.

It does sound like you might be a perfect candidate for small business server, as that would be the simplist initial setup of a 'proper' network with AD, exchange and a file server to start with.

The backups are a bit more tricky because ideally you don't want to back the files up to the same server as if you lose the one box you lose everything. If your not really looking for 'full' backups and just want a user to be able to undelete files if they accidentally delete them then you can enable Windows Server 2003 Volume Shadow Copy Services, which will periodically take a snapshot of the files which have changed. You can then give users access to older versions of the files through a web interface and I think if its setup right they can do it by just right clicking on the file in question and a new tab appears for it.
 
TheKnat said:
You don't need a specific broadband connection to host your own mail server, but you do need a static IP address to get it working properly.
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Ah ok yes, I guess that something that can be had from BT for a price?

TheKnat said:
From the sounds of it you need to buy an ADSL router/modem to share out your connection and to use as a networking switch as well. You should be able to pick one of these up for around £30 for a decent one.
Click to expand...
Yes, an ADSL router/modem is exactly what I want, I am a fan of Netgear products so will have a look. I assume you can use any brand right?

TheKnat said:
It does sound like you might be a perfect candidate for small business server, as that would be the simplist initial setup of a 'proper' network with AD, exchange and a file server to start with.
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Well yes it sounds like I may. I'm not sure of the difference between Windows Server 2003 and Small Business Server are?

I did a 3 month Novel Netware course many (many) years ago so I have some basic experience. Is 'Active Directory' a rip off of Netwares 'Volumes'?

I have a rough idea of what exchange is, I think its mail server software right?

I don't know what you mean by 'File Server' software though? is that just proper Windows sharing?


TheKnat said:
The backups are a bit more tricky because ideally you don't want to back the files up to the same server as if you lose the one box you lose everything. If your not really looking for 'full' backups and just want a user to be able to undelete files if they accidentally delete them then you can enable Windows Server 2003 Volume Shadow Copy Services, which will periodically take a snapshot of the files which have changed. You can then give users access to older versions of the files through a web interface and I think if its setup right they can do it by just right clicking on the file in question and a new tab appears for it.
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This is sounding interesting in a geeky way. Is this Windows Server 2003 'Volume Shadow Copy Services' available in small business server or just Windows Server 2003?

I understand what you mean by having all the information on the server, what I originally thought of was just using windows file sharing for this and mapping the users 'My Documents' to a network share on the server. However I noticed that when u delete files across the network that are 'gone!!? (not in recycle bin or anything?).

For a simple solution I was thinking of just having the users files stored locally on their computer and using the server to make daily backups of these files across the network to the servers Raid-1 array, then on top of this having an external hard disk make backups of the backups lol! :D
 
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installing a router is easier than messing around with a crossover cable, just read the manual that comes with it to setup the ADSL side of it, the LAN (local area network) will 'just work' you plug the pc's in via ethernet, go into control panel and set all the network TCP/IP settings to 'automatically obtain ip address' and it'll work
 
Big.Wayne said:
I understand what you mean by having all the information on the server, what I originally thought of was just using windows file sharing for this and mapping the users 'My Documents' to a network share on the server. However I noticed that when u delete files across the network that are 'gone!!? (not in recycle bin or anything?).

For a simple solution I was thinking of just having the users files stored locally on their computer and using the server to make daily backups of these files across the network to the servers Raid-1 array, then on top of this having an external hard disk make backups of the backups lol!
Click to expand...

Redirect the user's "my documents" to the array and instruct them to only save docs there - that makes backups and managing the data much easier to handle. It definitely sounds like you want volume shadow copies enabled, but you should also make proper backups as well (as volume shadow copies are stored on the same server as the data). Newer MS operating systems come with the ntbackup utility - although it's not great for a corporate environment, it's ideal for smaller networks and can be scheduled to back up your raid array to an external device.
 
You will have to do with Windows Server Products due to the fact that Windows XP can only have a limited number of connections to it...

Stelly
 
Stelly said:
You will have to do with Windows Server Products due to the fact that Windows XP can only have a limited number of connections to it...

Stelly
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For a small enough network, it would be fine (XP Pro can handle up to 10 connections at a time - or more if you're handy with a hex editor and want to play with tcpip.sys... but I believe that thats' a breach of the EULA). Once you've got yourself a server set up, then you have to start looking into CALs, though...

The main problem is that you can't install Exchange on XP ;)
 
=walls= said:
For a small enough network, it would be fine (XP Pro can handle up to 10 connections at a time - or more if you're handy with a hex editor and want to play with tcpip.sys... but I believe that thats' a breach of the EULA). Once you've got yourself a server set up, then you have to start looking into CALs, though...

The main problem is that you can't install Exchange on XP ;)
Click to expand...

Yer I know that but like you said it is breaking the EULA :)

Stelly
 
What happened to "if it aint broke dont fix it" ?

Its good to learn but tinkering with your live business setup....?
 
Hi guys,

thanks very much for your replies, all helpful stuff!.

Ok the way forward is looking a little clearer, its just a small setup we have but there is a little budget to 'upgrade' the Office I.T so to speak.

This all came about because the Boss has finally decided to upgrade his P4(HT) 3GHz to something a bit faster (he encodes a lot of Videos at work lol slacker!), so basically we will have a spare PC and I thought why not strip it down and rebuild it as a small server.

To Do List:

1) Find a nice ADSL Modem/Router/Switch that will work with BT-Broadband.

2) Find out how much it costs to have a static I.P address (for purposes of a mail server)

3) Work out which O/S to spec for the server? Window Server 2003 or Small Business Server? (maybe I can get away with winging it in WinXP?).

4) Find an external device that has large enough capacity to back up a 500GB Raid-1 array.

Main thing to remember is that the network is very small, just two desktops and now a laptop so that three 'Clients' max that need looking after (four machines total including the server). The laptop is 'wireless' but I don't know jack about that so I am tempted to just connect it to the network via the wire.

The 'roaming profile' feature looks very useful, the Boss wanted to be able to access his stuff from any machine (emails, data etc) so I figure that I will probably have to get a proper network O/S installed.

Anyone who knows about the above, what sorta money am I talking about with all that stuff lol! :D
 
Big.Wayne said:
Hi guys,

thanks very much for your replies, all helpful stuff!.

Ok the way forward is looking a little clearer, its just a small setup we have but there is a little budget to 'upgrade' the Office I.T so to speak.

This all came about because the Boss has finally decided to upgrade his P4(HT) 3GHz to something a bit faster (he encodes a lot of Videos at work lol slacker!), so basically we will have a spare PC and I thought why not strip it down and rebuild it as a small server.

To Do List:

1) Find a nice ADSL Modem/Router/Switch that will work with BT-Broadband.

2) Find out how much it costs to have a static I.P address (for purposes of a mail server)

3) Work out which O/S to spec for the server? Window Server 2003 or Small Business Server? (maybe I can get away with winging it in WinXP?).

4) Find an external device that has large enough capacity to back up a 500GB Raid-1 array.

Main thing to remember is that the network is very small, just two desktops and now a laptop so that three 'Clients' max that need looking after (four machines total including the server). The laptop is 'wireless' but I don't know jack about that so I am tempted to just connect it to the network via the wire.

The 'roaming profile' feature looks very useful, the Boss wanted to be able to access his stuff from any machine (emails, data etc) so I figure that I will probably have to get a proper network O/S installed.

Anyone who knows about the above, what sorta money am I talking about with all that stuff lol! :D
Click to expand...

You can set up exchange on SBS :)
 
You can pickup SBS 2003 with 5 cals for £400 - £500, Exchange is included in both standard and premium edition.

A low-end HP / Dell server with RAID1 will be somewhere in the realms of £500, BT BB + 1 static IP would be ~£35 a month.

How many users do you have?
 
Big.Wayne said:
I only mentioned the mail server thing because my boss wanted a way to access his stuff (files, email etc) from any computer and I can't work out any other way to do that except having a proper 'central' mail server?

Lol I feel like a total nOOblet! :D
Click to expand...

I am not trying to confuse you again as I know there will be lots to take in, however have you seen www.google.com/a/ for your email solution?

More importantly this: http://www.google.com/a/smallbiz/

it could be the answer to your mail problems, shared inboxes and calendars, plus cos it's google it can be accessed from anywhere with an internet connection.
 
The_KiD said:
I am not trying to confuse you again as I know there will be lots to take in, however have you seen www.google.com/a/ for your email solution?

More importantly this: http://www.google.com/a/smallbiz/

it could be the answer to your mail problems, shared inboxes and calendars, plus cos it's google it can be accessed from anywhere with an internet connection.
Click to expand...
In which case... you can save yourself a shed-load of money by using the spare XP box as your file-server... and for 3-4 users - do you really need raid? regular backups should do the job fine...
 
=walls= said:
In which case... you can save yourself a shed-load of money by using the spare XP box as your file-server... and for 3-4 users - do you really need raid? regular backups should do the job fine...
Click to expand...

Once clients become accustomed to having uninterrupted access to their private and shared data, it becomes a right, it's going to be difficult to justify any kind of down time, regardless of the organisations size. Therefore, XP offering any kind of service from a business perspective becomes inadequate.

Will continue this justification of server OS over client OS as soon as I reach sobriety... lol.
 
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