Advice Required - Resignation/Reference

Pestilence said:
Seems like you handed them all the cards, and they duly played them.

Mind you, if they have nothing written, dated, and signed from you in terms of resignation then you didn't resign. Walk right back in there if you feel you need to fight this out.
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If they didn't offer you to sign the notes etc of your disciplinary hearing then they are null and totally void. There's nothing to say that they have been tampered with.

Telescopi said:
I'm no lawyer, but I'd expect them to run into difficulty punishing him for not following a company policy that nobody in the company follows. Certainly if he is singled out for not following it.
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The same happened to me at my old company, Litterally nobody followed a 'mystical policy' and I was singled out, even if you provide hard evidence everybody else was doing the same.... It works very well, untill you take it to employment tribunal, at that point, they keel over.

hurfdurf said:
This.

Also, a lesson to everyone about why they should be in their union from the start. Unions are amazing for workers. I imagine he would have been completely let off had he been in the union. HR do not work for the employee, they are there to make sure the company does not get in trouble and are equally as out to get you as any vampire capitalist.
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Personally, my union were absolutely useless and corrupt, haven't joined one since! Usdaw IIRC.

OP, the worst thing you did, as you now know! (hindsight is a beautiful thing) was resign, and offer to give them money. If you'd played it out longer, maybe even file a grievance, it stretches it out. meaning, they are paying you for longer :) providing you can mentally take the stress of it all that is.
This buys you time to seek professional advice etc.

If I was you, and everything you have told us is indeed true, and you really believe you haven't done anything wrong, then you should take it to employment tribunal for sure.

I sympathise though, this is a bloody hard thing to go through, especially knowing you are completely innocent of anything. Make sure you use family and friends for support because without them you may just go insane!

Mine ended well for me, they gave me money and a fantastic reference, along with my favourite... the apology ;)
 
Westyfield2 said:
If only there was a way to join the union and pay your fees for the legal advice, but not have the union get involved in politics (so really a legal cover insurance policy).
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And what if the legal advice doesn't shape up and negotiations don't work out, and the only alternative left is the organised withdrawal of labour?
 
Surely if he was to take them to tribunal and win, they'd be very careful with giving a reference, as they'd have been proven to be in the wrong?
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the system is heavily setup in favour of the employer now. He will have to have some substantial written evidence to get anywhere with this.

if he goes to tribunal they will throw the kitchen sink at him in terms of colleagues verbally countering his argument. The tribunals go on the side of majority statements and the companies know this now. If he doesn't have colleagues to vouch for him (he wont as they wont risk their own jobs for him) or has written evidence to support his case he will lose at tribunal.

How do I know this? I have been in many tribunals in my time on the side of the company, I have never lost.......because you can bend the legal system easily in your favour as a company.
 
Voltage said:
the system is heavily setup in favour of the employer now. He will have to have some substantial written evidence to get anywhere with this.

if he goes to tribunal they will throw the kitchen sink at him in terms of colleagues verbally countering his argument. The tribunals go on the side of majority statements and the companies know this now. If he doesn't have colleagues to vouch for him (he wont as they wont risk their own jobs for him) or has written evidence to support his case he will lose at tribunal.

How do I know this? I have been in many tribunals in my time on the side of the company, I have never lost.......because you can bend the legal system easily in your favour as a company.
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Are you the OP's boss? :D
 
.........yes :p

Just got the experience of tribunals from a company perspective. If you are a competent manager then you know your employment law very well and you know how to abuse it to your benefit. If he is against anyone like myself in this tribunal he has no little chance of success.

Resigning or even mentioning resigning was the worst thing he could have done in the circumstance, he has thrown such a massive legal life line to the company he will struggle to recover from it. At this point I worry for his reference, that would be my priority right now is coming to some kind of arrangement regarding the reference.

Someone really hates him in that company, I have screwed a lot of people over in my time but one thing I always try to maintain for them is a good reference. If someone is being that cruel then he must have done something to really pish them off.
 
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Thanks to everybody for the responses to this, much appreciated. Just wanted to provide an update as it is still ongoing and is still a major headache for me.

I now have the help of an employment lawyer who has been fantastic and has drafted a number of emails for me to send to my previous employer before he goes in and writes a formal letter from himself on my behalf.

Notably, I have reiterated to them that I did not resign either in writing or verbally and instead I only had a discussion with my manager about agreeing a mutually agreed way to end the process. They interpreted this as "Josh has resigned" despite me, at no point mentioning I resign with immediate affect. My follow up email clearly stated that any resignation would be strictly on the basis that they agree to provide a positive reference for me.

My lawyer has rang the company saying he is acting on my behalf and therefore requesting a copy of their investigation file - they refused. I too sent a request for a copy of all information they hold regarding me relating to their investigation relating to their allegations but I was informed that I am no longer entitled to see this information as I am not an employee.

I haven't had time to chat with my lawyer yet, but am I correct in thinking that they must provide me with this information, if I make it clear I am exercising my rights under the Data Protection Act? I find it strange that they are able to say "resigned pending a disciplinary" in my reference but they refuse to release any information relating to these allegations.

Cheers
 
No time to read the full thread, but whether your actions scream guilt or not is irrelevant. If policies were not explained to you, you were not at fault. You did not resign and continued to call as though you were only suspended. Offering to refund and resign does not make you guilty, you were under pressure. If you have a car accident and admit guilty at the scene, that doesn't hold up in court either.

Get a solicitor and begin legal proceedings immediately. You could be in for quite the payday.
 
wndzr said:
I haven't had time to chat with my lawyer yet, but am I correct in thinking that they must provide me with this information, if I make it clear I am exercising my rights under the Data Protection Act? I find it strange that they are able to say "resigned pending a disciplinary" in my reference but they refuse to release any information relating to these allegations.

Cheers
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Yes they have no right to stop you from seeing the information they hold on you.
 
As [TW]Fox often and correctly states in these kind of threads, we're getting one side of a story. Having said that, I hope it works out for you OP.

Just as a general life tip : if you think the other person/party may have a strong hand of cards, it's generally not a good idea to give them your own useful cards and remove any uncertainty.
 
Messy, very messy. This is why you should always play things with a straight bat. Even if the policy had not been made clear to you, it's pretty obvious you shouldn't book hotels in the company's name without checking first :p.
 
Participant said:
Messy, very messy. This is why you should always play things with a straight bat. Even if the policy had not been made clear to you, it's pretty obvious you shouldn't book hotels in the company's name without checking first :p.
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Not really, it depends what kind of level you're working at. Common sense always applies regardless of policy but the line between acceptable and questionable can easily become blurred if you're given a bit of free reign r.e travel
 
rodenal said:
Not really, it depends what kind of level you're working at. Common sense always applies regardless of policy but the line between acceptable and questionable can easily become blurred if you're given a bit of free reign r.e travel
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This is exactly why the OP is in the predicament he is in. Did you read the thread?
 
Why did you offer to resign?

You could have pushed for constructive dismissal if you'd argued your case a bit harder :(
 
EVH said:
Why did you offer to resign?

You could have pushed for constructive dismissal if you'd argued your case a bit harder :(
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This is true, but at the time I wasn't thinking that. The whole situation was so daunting and I made a panic decision.

Update: They have completed ignored my solicitors Letter Before Action so as a result I filed an employment tribunal claim on Friday that set out my case and how they have refused to engage with me in any way at all.

They have chosen to not just be difficult, but to simply ignore me and hope I will go away. I've got all the evidence showing that any resignation was strictly on the basis that they provide an agreed reference.

It's a matter for their legal team to sort out now. I expect a very long and costly journey.
 
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