Afghanistan - 20 years on

Soldato
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I haven't really paid much attention to news recently, which is maybe why I was quite shocked when I saw a story about Afghanistan today and went on to read a bit more about what's going on. While of course I was aware that there had been near continuous fighting against insurgents since the 2001 invasion I didn't realise the current scale of the problem. Basically, the Taliban are making major gains, the US has nearly finished pulling out, and it really doesn't look like the current government is robust enough to put up much of a fight. It seems likely that Afghanistan has a volatile and violent future ahead, and the Taliban seem likely to end up controlling most of the country again.

1000+ Afghan soldiers flee across the border, with poor morale across the army: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57720103

US leaves Bagram Airbase, apparently without the Afghan base commander knowing in advance: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57682290

And a map, showing quite how far things have already gone:

I was still in primary school when the world trade centre attacks took place, and therefore 'the war on terror', and especially 'Afghanistan' has been a presence in my mind for pretty much the entire period I've been following the news. Maybe for that reason this actually hit me quite hard - the thought that after all that fighting and struggling, deaths of thousands of soldiers and civilians, a conflict which has been going on for decades, it looks like nothing has really changed, and nothing lasting accomplished.

I can't imagine what the average Afghan will be feeling at the moment.

Maybe this was inevitable - the US invasion was criticised at the time for not really have a clear and achievable plan for creating a sustainable non-extremist Afghan state, Afghanistan itself has a special history of being impossible to control. Top that off with foreign troops pulling out when 'the job' was clearly far from done (whatever 'the job' was, or whether it was achievable or not)... Still, doesn't make it any less sad, or worrying for the future of the region.
 
Seems similar to Vietnam in a way. It’s not like a war between nations who put their troops against each other. It’s guerrilla warfare. Fighting in streets with civilians everywhere, booby traps, hiding within the landscape. It’s pretty much not winnable. Unless you go Rotterdam 1940 everywhere. Don’t think any politicians could get away with that, there’d be so many civilian casualties.
 
Seems similar to Vietnam in a way. It’s not like a war between nations who put their troops against each other. It’s guerrilla warfare. Fighting in streets with civilians everywhere, booby traps, hiding within the landscape. It’s pretty much not winnable. Unless you go Rotterdam 1940 everywhere. Don’t think any politicians could get away with that, there’d be so many civilian casualties.
Yeah, definitely seen to be more than a few similarities to Vietnam... And quite, don't think any politician could get away with it, plus seems likely that in an environment like Afghanistan you'd just end up radicalising even more people who would want revenge for their dead family members etc, making the situation worse rather than better...
 
20 years, tens of thousands of human lives and trillions of dollars for zero measurable improvement for the country or any of its citizens.

Is anyone surprised by that? :(

I remember at the start of it saying this was going to be a 10 year waste of time, turns out I was wrong, it was a 20 year waste.
 
I think it achieved its objective of disrupting the country that bred and funded the terrorists responsible for 9/11 though, right?

Is that sarcasm that went over my head a little? Afghanistan had nothing to do with breeding or funding 9/11.

Every country that has tried to subdue the Afgans and take their territory has ended up getting kicked out. Even the Red Army went home with their tails between their legs. US arrogance once again ended in a waste of life and treasure.
 
You're joking right? It was literally the breeding ground for Bin Laden and Al-Qaida

How many Afghans were on those planes? Zero. You think a **** poor country like Afghanistan provided funding for 911? Bin Laden took refuge there yes but that is it. Its all on Saudi, their form of Islam, their citizens and their money. The US weren't marching into Saudi though.
 
How many Afghans were on those planes? Zero. You think a **** poor country like Afghanistan provided funding for 911? Bin Laden took refuge there yes but that is it. Its all on Saudi, their form of Islam, their citizens and their money. The US weren't marching into Saudi though.

Al-Qaida had people from many nations. They literally trained there and grew because of the protection from the Taliban.
 
IMO, the best way to achieve results would have been to not send troops, but to pay top dollar for the farmers' opiate supplies. Poppies are the highest value crop they can grow, and if the farmers are making money, the whole community is happier, healthier, better educated, richer, and they don't need to rely on the Taleban. Indeed, given the Taleban are anti-Poppy Farming, the farmers would fight back. The West could use the poppies medically, give free heroin to addicts to avoid 'fix money' crimes, or simply destroy them.

EDIT: plus you cut the criminal gangs and traffickers out of the equation!
 
Biden could have reversed the order. Just like he did for the Mexico boarder.
yes he could have. Not sure what that has to do with it very much being Trumps agreement. This isn't a consequence of 'Biden's America'. Its a logical conclusion to two decades of failed international policy, with the withdrawal actions approved by both recent presidents. It's basically a bipartisan policy.
 
Al-Qaida had people from many nations. They literally trained there and grew because of the protection from the Taliban.

AQ trained in many countries. Saudi money and fighters had been there since the Soviet invasion. The only reason the US went to Afghanistan was because they refused to hand over Bin Laden, something their culture forbid them from doing. That and they needed to attack somewhere and they weren't marching in to SA. You can't blame 911 on Afghanistan though.
 
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