Afghanistan Fighting

^^Gord^^ said:
The July 7th bombings happened in 2005 and the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. It's fairly obvious that they the bombing didn't have anything to do with the decision to invade.

The invasion was about denying a safe haven to al-Qaeda.
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So what was the reason for the 7/7 attacks? (genuine question)
 
Chimerical said:
So what was the reason for the 7/7 attacks? (genuine question)
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The bombers were avenging deaths of Muslims in Iraq.

Here is the text from the video tape left by Mohammad Sidique Khan (one of the bombers)....

I and thousands like me are forsaking everything for what we believe. Our drive and motivation doesn't come from tangible commodities that this world has to offer. Our religion is Islam, obedience to the one true God and following the footsteps of the final prophet messenger. Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world. And your support of them makes you directly responsible, just as I am directly responsible for protecting and avenging my Muslim brothers and sisters. Until we feel security you will be our targets and until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people we will not stop this fight. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now you too will taste the reality of this situation.
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^^Gord^^ said:
The bombers were avenging deaths of Muslims in Iraq.

Here is the text from the video tape left by Mohammad Sidique Khan (one of the bombers)....
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And 9/11 was avenging crusader occupation of Saudi Arabia and on and on and on.

Extremeists do seem to always find a reason that lets them justify to themselves what they do.
 
^^Gord^^ said:
The NHS costs about £1700 per person. Private health insurance is a lot less than that per person.
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That's because private health insurance in this country is nothing more than a cherry on top of the state-funded cake. Using BUPA or something similar is just topping up what your taxes buy, not a fully fledged alternative. If you left private patients with only what their insurer had paid for, they'd be on a comfy bed with a flatscreen TV in the middle of a field with no staff in sight.
 
TJM said:
That's because private health insurance in this country is nothing more than a cherry on top of the state-funded cake. Using BUPA or something similar is just topping up what your taxes buy, not a fully fledged alternative. If you left private patients with only what their insurer had paid for, they'd be on a comfy bed with a flatscreen TV in the middle of a field with no staff in sight.
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Not quite. But A&Es might be a bit... rare!
 
fadetoblack said:
If was not for people trained to kill years ago (WW1,ww2) you would be speaking German right now. people like you make me sick. Show some respect to the familys of the dead troops and also the mates on patrol with them. It's because we have an armed forces defending your rights that your able to post pap like that.
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You're fundamentally incorrect there, because if no-one had been trained to kill then no-one would have fired a shot, and a war there would not have been. Ideally I suppose that's how it would be. I have mixed opinions, I look at my granddad and I appreciate his effort in fending off the Nazi's, a real global threat, not some media/US government creation, a real force, millions of well trained well armed intercontinental nutjobs trying to wipe out a race of people, and then I see old acquaintances and friends of friends going off to 'war' to shoot 'ragheads' and I wonder why. What are we achieving?. Stabilising the region?, I don't think we did very well there did we?, weapons of mass destruction?, orly?. Terrorist training camps?, is this reason enough to invade a country and kill thousand of people?. I can't understand how anyone could take the view that war in either Iraq or Afghanistan has improved anything, we should be making fundamental changes in the way we approach and deal with groups like the Taliban, actually trying to guide the situation into a position where they are somehow placated, rather than carrying on with a never ending guerilla resistance. See it's people like you that make me sick, because it's too much for you to think past the idea that dropping bombs on people is a constructive thing to do.


Stolly said:
You are a shockingly naive and ignorant person. Support returning our troops ? Sounds like you wish the whole nasty business of having armed forces would just go away.

Perhaps if we could just be lovely to everyone they will all just love us back eh ?
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I'm neither naive nor ignorant. I'm more than aware of how and why wars are waged, I just don't happen to think that thousands of people needlessly dying is the way forward. In an ideal world we could have total nuclear disarmament, a world council with a global armed force representing all nations, so on, and we could all sit in the park making daisy chains for each other, sounds good no?. Or we could at least be sensible and approach the real core reasons for the resistance and work towards an actual solution.
 
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Chimerical said:
So what was the reason for the 7/7 attacks? (genuine question)
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Putting it bluntly a bunch of ********* decided that the best way to avenge "injustice toward muslims" was to kill innocent people of many different race, colour & religion's.

Victims

The 52 victims of the 7 July bombings are listed below (around 30% of whom were foreign nationals).

King's Cross bomb

James Adams, 32, a mortgage broker who was travelling from his home in Peterborough to London through King's Cross from where he called his mother.

Samantha Badham, 35, had taken the Tube with her partner, Lee Harris. The couple usually cycled to work but caught the Tube because they were planning a romantic dinner to celebrate their 14th anniversary.

Lee Harris, 30, an architect who died after receiving treatment at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel, east London. His partner, Samantha Badham, also died in the attacks.

Phil Beer, 22, a hair stylist, was on his way to work at the Sanrizz salon in Knightsbridge with his best friend, Patrick Barnes, who was injured.

Anna Brandt, 41, a Polish cleaner living in Wood Green. She had 2 daughters.

Ciaran Cassidy, 24, of Upper Holloway, north London, on his way to his job as a shop assistant for a printing company in Chancery Lane. He was a keen Arsenal fan.

Elizabeth Daplyn, 26, an administrator at University College Hospital in London, left home in Highgate with her partner, Rob Brennan, before taking a Piccadilly Line train.

Arthur Edlin Frederick, 60, from Grenada, living in Seven Sisters, north London, on his way to work at the Victoria and Albert Museum.

Karolina Gluck, 29, from Poland, said goodbye to boyfriend, Richard Deer, 28, at 08:30. The IT consultant was travelling from Finsbury Park to Russell Square.

Gamze Günoral, 24, a Turkish student, left her aunt’s house in north London to catch the tube to go to her language college in Hammersmith.

Ojara Ikeagwu, 55, a married mother-of-three from Luton, was on her way to Hounslow where she worked as a social worker.

Emily Jenkins, 24, from Richmond. Having just returned to the UK from Australia, she was waiting to hear whether she had been successful in her application to become a midwife, on the day she was killed.

Adrian Johnson, 37, a keen golfer and hockey-player with two young children. He was on his way to work at the Burberry fashion house in Haymarket where he was a product technical manager.

Helen Jones, 28, a Scottish (London-based) accountant who had previously escaped death in 1988 when wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed upon Lockerbie. Her family, from Chapelknowe, Dumfries and Galloway, said: "Helen will live on in the hearts of her family and her many, many friends".

Susan Levy, 53, from Cuffley in Hertfordshire, the mother of Daniel, 25, and James, 23. She had just said goodbye to her younger son.

Shelley Mather, 26, from New Zealand, a tour manager with Contiki Tours.

Michael Matsu****a, 37, left his fiancee, Rosie Cowen, 28, at the couple's flat in Islington for his second day at work as a tour guide. He had lived in New York at the time of the 9/11 attack.

James Mayes, 28, worked as an analyst for the Healthcare Commission and had just returned from a holiday in Prague. He was heading from his home in Barnsbury to an ‘away day’ at Lincoln’s Inn and was thought to be travelling by Tube via King's Cross.

Behnaz Mozakka, 47, an Iranian biomedical records officer from Finchley who worked at Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital.

Mihaela Otto, 46, from Romania, known as Michelle. A dental technician of Mill Hill, north London.

Atique Sharifi, 24, an Afghan national who was living in Hounslow, Middlesex.

Ihab Slimane, a 24-year-old I.T. graduate from Lyon, France, who was working as a waiter at a restaurant near Piccadilly Circus, was said by friends to have caught a Tube from Finsbury Park.

Christian 'Njoya' Small, 28, an advertising salesman from Walthamstow, east London.

Monika Suchocka, 23, originally from Dąbrówka Malborska, in northern Poland, arrived in London two months earlier to start work as a trainee accountant in West Kensington. A flatmate named Kim Phillip said whilst she was still missing: "This is her first time in London and she is really enjoying the excitement of it all".

Mala Trivedi, 51, from Wembley was manager of the X-ray department at Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital.

Rachelle Chung For Yuen, 27, an accountant from Mill Hill, north London, who was originally from Mauritius.

Edgware Road bomb

Michael Stanley Brewster, 52, a father of two who was travelling to work from Derby. He died in the arms of fellow passengers who tried to help.

Jonathan Downey, 34, an HR systems development officer with the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea from Milton Keynes, had just said goodbye to his wife at Euston .

David Foulkes, 22, a media sales worker from Oldham, Greater Manchester, was on his way to meet a colleague. It was his first ever journey on the London Tube network.

Colin Morley, 52, of Finchley, marketing consultant. He was originally from Crosby, Liverpool.

Jenny Nicholson, 24, daughter of a Bristol vicar, who had just started work at a music company in London

Laura Webb, 29, from Islington, a PA. Laura was the youngest of three children.

Aldgate bomb

Lee Baisden, 34, an accountant from Romford who was going to work at the London Fire Brigade.

Benedetta Ciaccia, 30, an Italian-born business analyst from Norwich. One of three sisters, she was due to marry her Muslim partner in a ceremony which was to have joint Catholic and Muslim rites.

Richard Ellery, 21, was travelling from his home in Ipswich to his job in the Jessops store in Kensington, via Liverpool Street Station. He texted his parents, Beverley and Trevor, at 8.30am to say he was on his way to work.

Richard Gray, 41, a father of two young children, who worked as a tax manager. He was from Ipswich. At the remembrance service for the victims of the bombings in November 2005, Richard's daughter, Ruby, was chosen to present a posy to the Queen.

Anne Moffat, 48, from Harlow in Essex, who was head of marketing and communications for Girlguiding UK.

Fiona Stevenson, 29, a solicitor who lived at the Barbican, London. Her parents, Ivan and Eimar, of Little Baddow, Essex, described her as "irreplaceable".

Carrie Taylor, a 24-year-old graduate from Billericay, Essex. June Taylor, her mother, said: "We have a little farewell ritual. Carrie gives me a kiss goodbye". The day before the bombings, she had written on the bare plastered wall of her parents kitchen (which was about to be redecorated) 'Carrie Louise Taylor, 6/7/05, we got the 2012 Olympic Games on this day'.

Tavistock Square bus bomb


Anthony Fatayi-Williams, 26, a Nigerian-born executive with an oil and gas company based in Old Street, had been living in the UK for eight years.

Jamie Gordon, 30, from Enfield, worked for City Asset Management and was engaged to be married to his girlfriend Yvonne Nash.

Giles Hart, 55, a BT engineer from Hornchurch and father-of-two, was travelling to Angel via Aldgate.

Marie Hartley, 34, from Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire, was in London on a course. She was a mother of two young sons.

Miriam Hyman, 32, from Barnet, North London, a picture researcher. She had spoken to her father by phone after being evacuated from King's Cross station and reassured him that she was all right.

Shahara Akther Islam, 20, from Plaistow, East London, a bank cashier who lived with her parents, and was both fully Westernised and a devout Muslim.Shahara was of Bangladeshi origin, she was the eldest of three children, her parents having moved from Sylhet, Bangladesh to the UK in 1965.

Neetu Jain, 37, was evacuated from Euston and caught the bus to take her to work as a computer analyst. Ms Jain was planning to move in with her boyfriend, Gous Ali.

Sam Ly, 28, from Melbourne, died at the National Hospital of Neurology - the only fatality of ten Australians caught in the bombing.

Shyanuja Parathasangary, 30, a post office worker travelling from Kensal Rise to Alder Street.

Anat Rosenberg, 39, an Israeli-born charity worker who called her boyfriend to tell him she was on the Number 30 bus moments before the blast. John Falding, 62, her boyfriend, said: "She was afraid of going back to Israel because she was scared of suicide bombings on buses".

Philip Russell, a 28-year-old finance worker at JP Morgan who lived at Kennington in South-East London.

William Wise, 54 , an IT specialist at Equitas Holdings in St Mary Axe.

Gladys Wundowa, 50, from Ilford in Essex, a cleaner at University College London. She had finished her shift and was heading to a college course in Shoreditch. Her body was taken to her homeland of Ghana for burial.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings
R.I.P.:(
 
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to the OP, the fact is, its a war, yes its a waste, yes people are dying and its bad, but its a war, people are going to die, i know its a plain and horrible thing to say, but its a fact.

when i eventualy get deployed after ive finished my training ill think exactly the same, its a war, people die, its the way it is, how many threads like this over the internet do you think there has been, thousands upon thousands, the deaths since we have been out there is neally 200 (189 i think is the exact number) for the british, and they have been out there nearlly 9 years.

its not half as bad as how we would describe a "war", so in a way be thankfull it isnt many many more

the only thing you can say is the americans started it, and look whos finishing it, we are, and i shall keep my feelings about the yanks to myself.
 
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Anksy said:
the only thing you can say is the americans started it, and look whos finishing it, we are, and i shall keep my feelings about the yanks to myself.
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It's far too early to say that anyone is finishing this war, and it's hardly fair to imply that the Americans are slackers. They've stayed active in the dangerous regions for years, increased troop levels and had to stabilise Iraq with next to no useful assistance from the UK.
 
TJM said:
It's far too early to say that anyone is finishing this war, and it's hardly fair to imply that the Americans are slackers. They've stayed active in the dangerous regions for years, increased troop levels and had to stabilise Iraq with next to no useful assistance from the UK.
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it was just in the news recently that all these american troops are pulling out and leaving us there, its in plain english and hardly difficult to see, and im not saying its ending but its Very unlikely they will pull out, and then return.

and thats also just my opinion, about the americans.
 
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fraps said:
or my preferred option - coming home now and spending some more money on the NHS... :)
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Our tax money is spent protecting the rights of "terrorists", but because we abide by the EHRC, they can claim compensation, asylum, legal aid, but still preach religious hatred against us, because for us, the UK, to deny them this privilege would be racist, secularist, biggoted, facist or any other kind of "ist" they could dream up;)
 
fadetoblack said:
Our tax money is spent protecting the rights of "terrorists", but because we abide by the EHRC, they can claim compensation, asylum, legal aid, but still preach religious hatred against us, because for us, the UK, to deny them this privilege would be racist, secularist, biggoted, facist or any other kind of "ist" they could dream up;)
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That's right mate yah *hic*.

Go back to bed.
 
fadetoblack said:
Our tax money is spent protecting the rights of "terrorists", but because we abide by the EHRC, they can claim compensation, asylum, legal aid, but still preach religious hatred against us, because for us, the UK, to deny them this privilege would be racist, secularist, biggoted, facist or any other kind of "ist" they could dream up;)
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No, our tax money is spent provoking terrorists by stirring things up even more.

Also stop referring to the UK as "us", just because we were born in the same place doesn't mean we share the same views.
 
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