Aggressive small dogs

Associate
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I have 3 Rottweilers and a Belgian Malinois little dogs get right on my **** but i hate Staffs more... not because they are overly aggressive but because every chav and his sister have got one, so when i do bump into an aggressive dog 9/10 times it's a bloody staff.
 
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Soldato
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No, I simply mean do you, under any circumstances, trust other people to have good judgement and not do anything to harm, or by omission of action allow harm to come to, you?

Then you should learn to say what you mean then shouldn't you. Of course I trust other people to have good judgement if they have demonstrated some capacity to do so. But if you mean would I trust a complete stranger, without appropriate qualifications, to look after my kids then no. I don't know them there are plenty of people who make poor judgements why should I take the risk?

*sigh*.....
It's a figure of speech. The UK has always been famous for having one of the highest percentages of dog ownership in the world...
Cor, you really are in a pedantic mood tonight, aren't you?

It's a figure of speech that is incorrect. It's a figure of speech you used to substantiate your argument even though it was wrong. I am not being pedantic you were wrong. And the UK does not have one of the highest dog ownership rates. Incidentally dog owners in the country have been shown to be lower educated than cat owners (not that I am that fussed about them either). But judging from this thread and the quality of argument placed forward I can believe that.
 
Soldato
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but i hate Staffs more... not because they are overly aggressive but because every chav and his sister have got one, so when i do bump into an aggressive dog 9/10 times it's a bloody staff.

What an increadibly odd thing to say. So you hate a particular breed of dog because you feel a certain demographic always own them?

Tell me, is it the dogs fault for being born into or adopted by these families where it will most likely be poorly trained?

Staffies are one of the most friendly and loving dog breeds going when cared for properly and trained well.

Hate the stupid owners, not the dog.
 
Associate
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I do hate the owners... could you not detect that with my phrasing? I simply hate staffs more than little dogs.... not all staffs but those with an unsociable temperament that are allowed to run freely in a public area with no thought to other dog owners and more commonly than not , that is the staff i meet in public. A "certain demographic" does commonly own them .. lets not play silly buggers.

I work with dogs every day i am not naive to think that all staffs are slathering rabid beasts in need of termination.


I take it you're a staff owner? Do you like Burberry?
 
Soldato
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The UK did have a dog license at one stage... Dunno why they got rid of it, really.

Probably because it is near impossible to police, and the cost of implementing an effective policing system would be prohibitive.

Boils down to money at the end of the day. Not enough people are being mauled or killed by dogs for the government to do something about it. Of course that is little consolation to those who have been mauled, or to the families of those who have been killed by dogs over the years.

A driver isn't *supposed* to, no... A driver is never supposed to speed ever... 17 million of them in 2013 still did, though.
What sound judgement they had, eh!!

Yes, and a lot of those speeding wont have caused an accident or injury. Just like a lot of the dogs being let off the lead will not. The point being, though, that there has to be standard of best practice. The policy of speed limits is about limiting the potential harm caused by speeding drivers. It is not to say everyone that speeds will cause harm, in the same way as not every dog off the lead will cause harm. But the risk has to be mitigated and best practice implemented on the potential for harm.

It is why we are not supposed to drink and drive. It is why we are not supposed to speed, particulalry outside of schools or in built up areas. It is why we are supposed to put our lights on in the dark and why we are supposed to keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front. It is why we have a minimum tread depth on the tyres and we have to have an MOT (where applicable). All of these are elements of best practice to mitigate potential risk.

In 2012, there were 195,723 casualties on Britains roads. At the end of 2012 there were 34.5m vehicles on our roads. That is an approximate casualty rate of 0.56% of vehicles on the road. Your 17 million speeders figure is a little misleading because it does not account for multiple offenders.

Now lets look at dogs. It is a little more approximated as dog ownership is not really registered like vehicles are. It is hard to find hard data, and I couldnt find anything from the ONS, so bear with me on these figures.

Circa 8.5 million dogs in 2013. Circa 200,000 people a year injured by dogs (around 6000 of which are serious enough for hospital admission). That is a casualty rate of 2.4% of dogs owned.

So, if you want to look at it statistically, you have a higher chance of being injured by a dog in this country than you do by a car even though the number of dogs is only 25% of the number of cars.


But equally, humans are supposed to recognise antagonising/threatening/upsetting animals is generally a stupid thing to do... yet a surprising number of those occasions where it turns out bad gets blamed on the dog/owner instead of the kid that was throwing stones at it, or whatever.

Kids running into the road is also stupid, as are kids playing chicken. But as a society we accept that kids are not mature enough to fully assess the risks involved with their actions and we have to take responsibility for them. As a car driver that may be in the form of slowing down when you see children on the pavement, or when you are driving past parks/schools. As a dog owner it may be in the form of keeping your dog close at heel, and on a lead around children or in a situation where it could be reasonably predicted your dog may interact with children (IE in a public place / park etc). The question of children is particulalry important given that around 1100 of the hospital admissions are children under 10 years of age and 50% of those required plastic surgery.

Just going to leave this here for posterity:

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, eg:

in a public place
in a private place (eg a neighbour’s house or garden)
in the owner’s home

The law applies to all dogs.

Out of control

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if:

it injures someone’s animal
the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal



EDIT - I forgot to mention that I do agree there is an odd slant of the law regarding dogs defending their owners, like in the example you mention above.

That said, if someone gets mugged it is a horrible experience, but does the mugger deserve to be killed or seriously mauled by a dog though? I know we generally hate thieves and such, but we dont punish them with maimings or death do we? So as far as justice / law is concerned, I think it is perhaps a necessary evil to treat the very few cases like the one you mention in the way that we do. Otherwise it opens the door to all kinds of unpleasant scenarios.
 
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Soldato
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I do hate the owners... could you not detect that with my phrasing? I simply hate staffs more than little dogs.... not all staffs but those with an unsociable temperament that are allowed to run freely in a public area with no thought to other dog owners and more commonly than not , that is the staff i meet in public. A "certain demographic" does commonly own them .. lets not play silly buggers.

I work with dogs every day i am not naive to think that all staffs are slathering rabid beasts in need of termination.


I take it you're a staff owner? Do you like Burberry?

I was not disagreeing with the demographics. I was saying I thought it odd that you hate that particular breed of dog when it is clearly bad ownership/training from that demographic (who are famous for wanting Staus Dogs) that leads to the issues you mention above, not the breed itself.

No I am not a Staffie owner, and I mislike Burberry, Rockport and Elizabeth Duke. :)
 
Caporegime
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The law applies to all dogs.

Out of control

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if:

it injures someone’s animal
the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

It's actually a lot more complicated than that if you look at the legislation.

A dog will not be considered dangerously out of control for defending their owner being mugged, or because someone with a dog phobia thinks it's going to attack them, or because it walks in front of them and trips them up.
 
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Soldato
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London
Actually it does because you are arguing your judgement is foolproof when quite clearly like every other human you do make mistakes.

Nope, this is just another example of you twisting things to invent your own truth.
I am not arguing that my judgement is foolproof in every aspect of life and that I'm utterly incapable of making mistakes.

I'm not sure why you'd think that unless you're only capable of binary thought processes.

Hit a raw nerve have we?]

Again, nope. It's just that I think you're a bit of a paranoid, uptight plonker tbh. An armchair expert.

No, but I have a degree of empathy for people who do. Seems like you do not.

I do have empathy for them. As I said, I used to be one of them.
I just think it's sad that people make decisions and hold opinions that are based on fear and ignorance and I'll only bend so far to accommodate them given that they are in no danger whatsoever as far as I'm concerned.
 
Soldato
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Small dogs always used to have a go at my Border Collie, he just used to stare at them like 'wtf mate?' :D

My family had a white pyrenees mountain dog when I was younger, the best way to describe him was "formidable" lol. Taking him for a walk, he just looked at yappy small dogs with a bemused "bitchplease" expression.
 
Soldato
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Then you should learn to say what you mean then shouldn't you.
Or you could just learn to recognise an example.
Do I really have to spell everything out for you? Are you really going to be that picky?

Of course I trust other people to have good judgement if they have demonstrated some capacity to do so.
So you check the licence, MOT, insurance, alcohol level and general mental faculties of every driver that passes you on the road, do you?
You require them to display their qualifying documents before allowing them by?
Or do you just trust them not to crash into you, like everyone else?

What about the short guy down the pub mentioned earlier? Do you assume just because he's drunk he's going to come over and deck you, so call the police just in case... or do you assume he's going to be sensible and not start a fight?

It's a figure of speech that is incorrect.
I wasn't aware it had to be irrefutably provable to 100% statistical accuracy to make a simple conversational point... a point which you seem to have nicely forgotten in your quest for... whatever it is you think you're achieving here.

Point still stands - The people of the United Kingdom own dogs and that's not going to change. If you want to ever go outside again, you will have to deal with it.

Incidentally dog owners in the country have been shown to be lower educated than cat owners (not that I am that fussed about them either). But judging from this thread and the quality of argument placed forward I can believe that.
Drinking orange juice has been shown to prevent cancer. Drinking orange juice has also been shown to give you cancer. What's your point?

Yes, and a lot of those speeding wont have caused an accident or injury. Just like a lot of the dogs being let off the lead will not.
Which was part of my point. However, those caught speeding still made errors of judgement, especially since almost all cameras are signposted now.

Your 17 million speeders figure is a little misleading because it does not account for multiple offenders.
That is 17 million occurrences of bad judgement. If that includes repeat speeders or not, that's still 17 million separate occasions when a human has demonstrated ill judgement.

Kids running into the road is also stupid, as are kids playing chicken. But as a society we accept that kids are not mature enough to fully assess the risks involved with their actions and we have to take responsibility for them.
That 200,000 covers adults bitten as well, including the likes of Police handlers, RSPCA officers, dog wardens, trespassers, mistaken owners, vets administering treatment and those who purposely raise dogs for fighting.
It's not all kids getting faces ripped off by blood-crazed Pit-Bulls.

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
makes someone worried that it might injure them
Well, that's it, then.
ALL our dogs are automatically classed as dangerously out of control, because there will always be someone like a few in this thread that will simply claim that worry...
Might as well put them all down now, eh!

That said, if someone gets mugged it is a horrible experience, but does the mugger deserve to be killed or seriously mauled by a dog though?
To mug someone is generally to attack and rob, as opposed to mere robbery.
Victims usually get hurt in muggings (which is the point) and they usually involve criminals outnumbering the more vulnerable victims, so yeah I'd say they deserve quite a bit of pain for their efforts. More so if they're stupid enough to attack someone with a German Shepard!

Otherwise it opens the door to all kinds of unpleasant scenarios.
Yes, far more pleasant to just let them have what they want, smash you about a bit and then limp on your way... except you have no money for wherever you were going now, so you might as well just limp back home instead.
 
Caporegime
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Small dogs don't have the option of buying a soft-top sports car to compensate. So they just bark a bit louder.

It's just because they're small, and they know it, and it brings them great shame ;)
 
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