Agile and ITIL - what is it (in laymans terms!)

~J~ · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:01

Have been put forward for a new job for a company just outside of London today and the spec has the following as 'an advantage'.

Experience of working in an ‘agile’ environment an advantage.

and

Experience of working within an ITIL environment an advantage.

Anyone know what an "Agile" and an "ITIL" Environment is?

Gilly · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:04

Agile I would take to mean that you do not have agreed and cemented processes and are expected to JFDI.

ITIL is a service management framework.

HarryPainful · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:04

It has to be an IT job id if ITIL is mentioned and you don't know what it is?!!!?

IT support really is the new shelf stacking...

Lashout_UK · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:05

Define:ITIL =

The Information Technology Infrastructure Library (ITIL) is a set of concepts and policies for managing information technology (IT) infrastructure ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL

A framework of best practice techniques to facilitate the delivery of high-quality information technology services. ...
www.oracle.com/profit/features/060807_Ondemand_gloss.html

Define:Agile =

moving quickly and lightly; "sleek and agile as a gymnast"; "as nimble as a deer"; "nimble fingers"; "quick of foot"; "the old dog was so spry it ...
mentally quick; "an agile mind"; "nimble wits"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Agility is the ability to change the body's position, and requires a combination of balance, coordination, speed, reflexes, and strength. Agility is usually achieved when a person is using his ATP_PC or lactic acid (anaerobic) systems.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agility

agilely - in a nimble or agile manner; with quickness and lightness and ease; "nimbly scaling an iron gate"- Charles Dickens; "leaped agilely from roof to ...
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

You lose 3 internets.

arknor · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:05

maybe monkeys would be more suited to working in an "Agile" enviroment.

i would love to know why people come up with such crap.

fast paced enviroment would be the same as agile?

Gilly · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:06

HarryPainful said:
It has to be an IT job id if ITIL is mentioned and you don't know what it is?!!!?

IT support really is the new shelf stacking...

:/

HarryPainful · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:06

Well you do get monkeys working on support and services desks now so it would make perfect sense really..

~J~ · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:07

Gilly said:
Agile I would take to mean that you do not have agreed and cemented processes and are expected to JFDI.

ITIL is a service management framework.

(Good job I know what JFDI is!!

)

OK, perfect answers. Thanks.

HarryPainful said:
It has to be an IT job id if ITIL is mentioned and you don't know what it is?!!!?

IT support really is the new shelf stacking...

Yeah sorry, 22 years in the field and don't know everything. Sorry.

HarryPainful · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:07

Gilly said:
:/

Am I wrong though Gilly? seriously?

HarryPainful · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:08

~J~ said:
(Good job I know what JFDI is!! )

OK, perfect answers. Thanks.

Yeah sorry, 22 years in the field and don't know everything. Sorry.

Have you been out of the field for the last 6 or 7 years to not know about ITIL?

Its EVERYWHERE!

oli collett · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:09

Gilly said:
Agile I would take to mean that you do not have agreed and cemented processes and are expected to JFDI.

Sadly that is the definition of agile in a lot of companies nowadays, yet it is so far removed of what agile is it's infuriating.

Working in a true, or close to true agile environment is great for everyone involved - sadly it seems most companies take it as an oppurtunity to change requirements as and when the project manager/business person wants without the teams input and forget the whole "team empowerment" and just about everything else that is necessary.

Gilly · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:09

HarryPainful said:
Am I wrong though Gilly? seriously?

Yes.

Well, kinda.

You said it had to be an IT job if it involved ITIL, which is true, but then you went on to say that IT support is the new shelf stacking - when really the job might have nothing to do at all with support.

There are many roles within an ITIL environment, lots of them non-technical.

oli collett said:
Sadly that is the definition of agile in a lot of companies nowadays, yet it is so far removed of what agile is it's infuriating.

Working in a true, or close to true agile environment is great for everyone involved - sadly it seems most companies take it as an oppurtunity to change requirements as and when the project manager/business person wants without the teams input and forget the whole "team empowerment" and just about everything else that is necessary.

Indeed.

Agile should mean a lean, empowered, swiftly moving and well-controlled environment covered by good change control and quality assurance practices.

It doesn't, though.

Zogger · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:11

they could be referring to an Agile development methodology if it's a development job

osc89er · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:13

You cannot define agile via a standard dictionary. It is not a description but a methodology. Traditional methodologies are much more strict, restrictive and less responsive to feedback or changes, agile methodologies are intended to address these problems.

It is long time since I studied or used any software engineering... so I'm sure someone with better and more recent experience can explain better.

EDIT: yes, what Zogger said.

~J~ · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:14

HarryPainful said:
Have you been out of the field for the last 6 or 7 years to not know about ITIL?

Its EVERYWHERE!

Listen, I really really don't have to justify myself at all. It was a simple question, something I've not heard of, didn't realise I was asking for my balls to be slammed in a door.

Just because YOU and a few others have heard of it, doesn't mean the remaining members have.

And for the record, it's not a "support" role. Even the recruitment guy asked if I'd heard of it, because he hasn't.

~J~ · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:15

Zogger said:
they could be referring to an Agile development methodology if it's a development job

Nail on head.

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciated.

Cuchulain · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:17

AGILE = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

mk17 · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:24

Have a go on Craig Larman's book "Agile & Iterative Development", but bear in mind that in practise a lot of people pay only lip-service, as in:

"We're using Agile methodologies in this project, so we're not doing any testing or documentation."

I swear to god, someone actually said that in a meeting I was unfortunate enough to be in!!!

fonzee · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:27

HarryPainful said:
Have you been out of the field for the last 6 or 7 years to not know about ITIL?

Its EVERYWHERE!

no, it isn't. only in higher management roles. stop being a pleb.

oli collett · 2 Apr 2009 at 12:27

Gilly said:
Agile should mean a lean, empowered, swiftly moving and well-controlled environment covered by good change control and quality assurance practices.

It doesn't, though.

There's no reason why it shouldn't, it's just that people don't realise the huge organisational change that is required to implement it and it usually means they end up either ditching it without giving it a chance or basically ending up with no methodology at all.

I worked on several agile teams at an organisation which was fairly tightly controlled, we worked with the change control teams and project management to help ensure that we followed all necessary process. We were delivering code in 2-3 weeks that previously took months and the business customer was really pleased. Couple of years down the line and it had gradually been eroded because the senior IT managers decided they didn't like the whole team autonomy thing and it's not really used there any more!