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AKG K702's instead of gaming headphones?

Discussion in 'Sound City' started by Robi, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. Marsman

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    No it won't, as the E10K is just a DAC. It's just plain stereo sound.

    If you are referring to V F's post #16; he's saying the headphones don't need it. He's saying that some headphones work well when it comes to placing sounds with just plain stereo; K702 are such headphones. I suppose this is why a few people don't bother with the positional sound effects stuff provided by SBX prostudio and Dolby Headphone.

    There are people though who think you need something like SBX prostudio regardless for positional sound, such as esat. I suppose it comes down to preference.

    V F, has an Auzentech Prelude sound card, which uses Creative's older CMSS 3D (does the same job as SBX prostudio). I'm uncertain when he says you don't need virtual surround sound, and that the AKG's have full directional awareness with just plain stereo, whether he uses CMSS 3D or not. If he does, what he said is void. What he said is only valid if he doesn't use CMSS 3D, and finds the AKG's don't need it.

    Some games though have built in positional sound. CS:GO may have because it's a Valve game. Other games of theirs do, such as L4D 1 & 2. Many games don't though, which is what esat was saying and that you need SBX prostudio etc to provide positional sound placement. However, there are still people who don't like that and feel good gaming headphones such as the K702 work well enough without it.

    As you have HyperX Cloud II, I was about to suggest trying them with and without the USB dongle part, which provides positional sound. That wouldn't be a fair representative of whether you need something to provide positional sound placement such as SBX prostudio etc, because the HXCII headset is not in the same league as the K702 headphones. The K702 will almost certainly perform better when it comes to positional sound placement without SBX prostudio etc, than the HXCII will.

    I don't think you can really know whether you'll really need a Creative device to provide SBX prostudio, without trying the headphones first with just plain stereo.

    What may be something worth trying would be to get the headphones first and just use them with onboard audio. I know that is not ideal and it won't drive them as well as a DAC/amp or decent sound card will, but you may be able to get some judgement of whether the positional sound is lacking. If not, then a FiiO E10K will drive them well and will be a good cheap purchase. If not, then you'll a sound card of some sort. That will add a fair bit more though to the cost.
     
  2. Robi

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    Joined: Apr 14, 2007

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    Ok, I understand what you're saying now. The positional/directional sound will be left up to the headphones as the E10K is just a DAC/amp producing stereo sound. However, if I went for something like the Sound Blaster E5 or G5, in conjunction with Pro Studio software, I would have full directional awareness?

    Daft question - but without positional sound, I'm not going to be able to tell where footsteps, shots etc are coming from right? This is obviously a key factor and while the sound quality will be miles above by Cloud II's, not being able to hear the position of stuff, is going to put me at a massive disadvantage.
     
  3. EsaT

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    Headphones can never reproduce anything not in signal.
    And if signal is standard speaker stereo mix it's always going to have very artificial "in(side) either left or right ear, or in center of head" immersion no matter the headphones.
    Like first two minutes of this having some horribly artificial sound with K702s.

    Everything is sure very accurately positioned... either inside left or right ear, or in center of head...
    Some crossfeed could prevent hard only in left/right ear feel, but positioning still stays at left-right level, because of cues used by brain to process full 360 directionality not existing.


    With CS:GO and other games with more capable sound engine/renderer and real sound output configurations (for telling game you're using headphones) you can get positioning no matter anything else.
    Well, except accurate enough signal chain and headphones...

    In other games producing speaker mix, you're going to have sounds positioned accurately inside one of your ears or in center of head.

    Windows 10 has free Windows Sonic for Headphones, which while not great for distance sensing basing to Youtube videos, would be at least better than stereo with some directionality.
    And then there are software you can buy, like that Dolby Atmos for Headphones and Creative's software.
     
  4. Robi

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    @EsaT Sorry, are you saying it's pointless buying the E10K then? I may as well stump up the extra cash and go for something better? Or can I use the E10K with software like Dolby Atmos and SBX Pro Studio?
     
  5. V F

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    No, I didn't use CMSS-3D. It feels wrong. I used Audio Creation mode which is stereo with bit-matched playback. Which is more or less the same on the AE-5 with DirectHP, Stereo/Neutral.

    Even when I tried the gaming headsets with CMSS-3D or set the games to 5.1/7.1 it felt strange to me. I can't take to Dolby Headphone either. There is this strange processed sound that I cannot take to.

    Even on the Prelude I had to switch to 2.1 for the K702's as Headphone mode felt like it compressed the soundstage. Which was apparently a problem for X-Fi's from what I read recently from discussions many years ago.
     
  6. Marsman

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    Fair enough, wasn't clear if you were using CMSS 3D or not. :)

    Isn't the first 2 mins of that video the same whether you are using a sound card without CMSS 3D, SBX, Dolby Headphone enabled, or using just a DAC/amp? i.e, plain stereo sound with no location at all.

    V F doesn't use CMSS 3D even though his sound card has it. He doesn't feel like the headphones need that to get sound placement awareness; so, either he is playing games that have some built in sound placement, like CS:GO or Left for Dead games or he's just finding what I've seen some others say that they don't like this sound processing, just use plain stereo and find sound placement is fine. Game in question is key and I have no idea who is playing what; other than the OP of course.

    I suppose it depends on how well SBX prostudio that is available as part of the software package that esat mentioned, compares to the SBX that is a part of Creative's sound cards. I would expect the sound card to be better because it's hardware as well not just software; but, if the software works well, then using that with a E10K would be a viable and cheaper option.

    Whether anyone including the guy reviewing the X-Fi MB3 software has compared it to an actual sound card with SBX, such as the AE-5, SB Z or G5, I don't know.

    If not, then look at reviews and comments of the MB3 software and see how well it works in itself, not compared to a sound card. If it works well, then it's a viable cheaper option along with a DAC/amp to paying £100+ for an AE-5 or G5. If it's a bit iffy, then an AE-5 or G5 will be worth it, even if they cost a fair bit more.

    It's either that or get a Soundblaster Z for £50 and add a headphone amp at later date. Although, you'd probably end up paying in total what a AE-5 or G5 costs, just not in one go.

    It's a shame the SB Z doesn't have a better amp, or it would be the ideal choice for those who want to use K702 headphones and can't afford or don't want to pay £100+ on top. It's also a shame that one of the best headphones for gaming, is also a demanding headphone and not easier to drive. But there we go, not all products work out quite as we'd like. :p
     
  7. Robi

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    Joined: Apr 14, 2007

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    @Marsman Thanks again, lots of useful info.

    Thankfully the K702 + ModMic are birthday presents, so I'll go with those and then make a call on the amp/soundcard/software etc after a bit more research.

    Can anyone recommend an adaptor for the VModa Boom Pro Mic? I would prefer just to have a single cable. Failing that, I'll get the ModMic and some braided sleeve to turn two cables into one-ish :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  8. Marsman

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    I've seen some straight adaptors, but they lower the microphone a fair bit meaning it will need to be angled upwards. Not sure if there is anything better that is flexible.
     
  9. V F

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    This is actually better to be honest as the braid also protects the cable so it doesn't get checked.
     
  10. EsaT

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    Correct.
    And no matter what processing you tried, it still wouldn't have positioning, because of that spatial data not existing in it.
    For positioning to work binaural simulation algorithms need 5.1 source signal.

    And when signal already contains those binaural cues, any further processing would only mess those cues.
     
  11. V F

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    @Robi I would also suggest you order: Sabrent USB External Aluminum Stereo Sound Adapter (AU-EMAC) B00OJ5AV8I £6.99

     
  12. pooley

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  13. WhiteHartMart

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    Joined: Aug 1, 2011

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    Location: Cornwall

    I have the one mentioned here
    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/akg-mini-xlr-ta3f-to-3-5mm-adapter-for-v-moda-boompro-uk-eu.771894/

    This is it on my K712s

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EAk0XpFLLHIORKqQMBgbE5KyegbEEI6LVg

    Works perfectly me for me - mic position is not an issue here at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  14. Robi

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    Joined: Apr 14, 2007

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    So this little thing would make the microphone clearer with less static? It's not going to impact the K702's?

    Thanks, although that thread is from 2015 so not sure how much luck I'll have.
     
  15. WhiteHartMart

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    Location: Cornwall

    I only bought mine last year and someone else I know contacted them a few months ago and they were still supplying them then :)
     
  16. V F

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    Location: UK

    Yes. This is for the Modmic only. You wont plug your headphones into it and it wont have an impact. You really don't want white noise in the background while you're talking.
     
  17. Robi

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    Joined: Apr 14, 2007

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    Perfect - thank you.

    AKG K702 Reference Open-Back Over-Ear Studio Headphones
    Antlion Audio ModMic Attachable Boom Microphone - Noise Cancelling WITHOUT Mute Switch
    Sabrent Aluminum USB External Stereo Sound Adapter
    5 Meters, 4mm BRAIDED SLEEVING

    All with the other half. I'm gonna keep my eye out for an E10K, G5 etc :)

    Thanks again for the help everyone!
     
  18. passey89

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    Joined: Nov 10, 2011

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    Location: Rugeley

    Running akg k702 and fio e10k here and its perfect.

    Used to run them theough my blue yeti which was ok but they deffinatly sound so much better now.
     
  19. Robi

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    Good to hear!

    I'm watching 3-4 on eBay and 1 on Gumtree at the moment, so hopefully I should snag one for next to nothing :)
     
  20. Robi

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    Joined: Apr 14, 2007

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    Picked up a 1 month old E10K for a grand total of £40 which should be arriving in the next few days!