Soldato
- Joined
- 31 May 2009
- Posts
- 21,506
Teacher hostage being held in Lybia has been released, wonder if they do not wish to be associated with other madness going on.
Alan Henning killed.
- Thread starter mgsdetail
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 31 May 2009
- Posts
- 21,506
If it was my wife or child, I would pay it.
-edit, and screw you if you disagree with how i would spend my money rescuing my wife or child
-second edit, the situation would be different, my wife or child would not be in a war torn place without warning, but if they were grabbed here, i would pay out
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Which is why it needs to be a heavily punishable by law.
All it does is encourage more kidnappings and as such you are helping the situation get worse.
So if it was your wife or child you would leave them to their fate, even if you had the means to save them?
I would pay it without question as well.
Who cares, I would die before not doing it, so even if the punishment was a capital one it would make no difference.
Technically funding a terrorist organisations is against the law, there are already server penalties, they just need to be acted on. Paying a ransom could be classed as doing this.
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Even if it was illegal if it was your son/daughter/wife/brother you'd break the law and pay it.
You'd do the jail time to save their life. You'd do it and you'd be happy to do it.
FWIW if all it cost me to get loved ones back was money I would pay in a heartbeat and screw the consequences. Thinking logically I can certainly see why it's wrong, but that wouldn't stop me and nor would any legal penalty here.
Not saying that all, I understand it. But you are not emotional compromised and nore is society. And you should be able to realise that paying ransom makes the issue worse and thus needs to be punishable. Because off course most people will try to do what ever they can.
A rubbish straw man question, with no thought behind it.
Unlikely as assets would be seized before any exchange.
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Posts
- 4,592
Nuke the middle east and North Korea, then put some hazard tape around them. 90% of the worlds worries will be gone.
Woo woo there, that's too logical for everyone here, we prefer to have have these problems for the next 100 or 200 or so years after all, we been allowing the Middle East and North Korea to cause problems for everyone since like forever.
Yes, that's exactly what it is, logic :/
what is a rubbish straw man?
you said paying ransoms should be punished
you were asked "would a punishment stop you paying a ransom for a loved one"
that/'s pretty much the exact situation you want to create he couldn't have really made it more relevant.
and the obvious answer for most people is "of course it bloody wouldn't" which makes any such punishment completely pointless.
So the family of Alan Henning would have had to have all their assets frozen for over a year in your world?
exactly how would they have survived?
So you would seize the assets of hostages families just in case they try to pay a ransom? Or are you suggesting we have some way of knowing who will pay ransoms and who won't so target those people?
The point is that any family is hardly going to tell the authorities they are paying a ransom are they? And no hostage taker is going to go through an authority who would automatically stop any such transaction taking place.
Essentially you would be punishing the victims before they had even committed any offence.
If a criminal offence is taking place you can seize assets.
They won't tell authorities if they are planning to pay a random.
But authorities are extremely likely to know that they are being held hostage.
And get that much money Together is obvious and out of the order for 99% of people. So it's pretty obvious they are going to try and break the law and so can be seized.
And no you wouldn't be punishing them before they committed an offence you punish them in the act of the offence. It's pretty easy to follow a known target and arrest at a point an offence is going to take place.
It has to be done, otherwise it just gets worse and worse.
Wow. So not only is your family member kidnapped, but then your own government freeze your assets. Nice.
What are we, China?
Nothing like china, seizing assets in the act of a crime is normal and happens all the time.
Or UPI perpetuate and increase kidnappings and fund such organisations, that's such a great idea. Far far less would get kidnapped if they knew negotiations wouldn't lead to huge sums of money.
Such ransoms are making it much more risky for charities to go in and help.
Or UPI perpetuate and increase kidnappings and fund such organisations, that's such a great idea. Far far less would get kidnapped if they knew negotiations wouldn't lead to huge sums of money.
Such ransoms are making it much more risky for charities to go in and help.
So you would essentially punish innocent people.
I don't think you quite understand how a hostage situation can be executed without the authorities knowing anything about it until after the fact. Or just how easy it is to raise money without the police knowing either. I could go to my bank and raise a second mortgage pretty simply, would the police know and even if they did could they legally seize assets without an actual crime taking place? Unless you are suggesting that if you are a victim of kidnapping then you are also a criminal whose assets need to be seized. I suspect that a country that has such draconian powers for its legal system is contrary to what a free democracy we are so intent on protecting actually is.
Your idea actually creates the kind of society that such people who do kidnap for political reasons are trying to impose.
In any case, I could still raise the money through intermediaries and there would be people willing to facilitate this and organise transfers and proofs etc. illegal or not, it wouldn't stop me. And any government that actually imprisoned or severely punished the families and victims of a kidnapping would be committing political suicide.
While I understand the premise, and that ransoms can encourage further kidnappings, your idea is impractical and easily circumvented.
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most of these kidnappings last years how are they to survive with no assets?
Also this policy would probbaly make you the first government to be lynched the first time a pretty white girl got taken hostage and the family was forced into poverty and not allowed to pay.