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Alder Lake-S leaks

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If it is an early engineering sample, then that generally is not reflective of later clocks.
Seems such a complex mess of things going on with the chip.
They're going to have to spend ages trying to configure then reconfig to get the best out of it for different use cases.
Interesting.
Although wtftech so might all be complete BS.
 
Wonder how long it'll take Microsoft to sort out the Windows scheduler for these "big&small" cores :D

doesn't matter what Microsoft do because alder lake doesn't give a crap, it's uses its own hardware scheduler and doesn't use the windows scheduler
 
If it is an early engineering sample, then that generally is not reflective of later clocks.
Seems such a complex mess of things going on with the chip.
They're going to have to spend ages trying to configure then reconfig to get the best out of it for different use cases.
Interesting.
Although wtftech so might all be complete BS.


It's not from wccrtech they just repost it, it's internal leaked specs provided by igors lab
 
Interesting, how on each will that work, sees a speciifc app and use big cores, sees another and uses small cores, or completely app independant?


Don't know, Intel hasn't given specifics of how it works - if I had to guess it will distribute work based on the instruction set of incoming data and data load, like a web browser generated light load and could be placed on a single small core, while a old game like csgo would be placed on the 1st two big cores. Maybe it's Intel has its own software layer that is premprogrammed for the optimal work distribution based on the application exe name, kinda like a driver? Who knows

What we do know is that Intel internal leaked slides claims to have up to 200% performance gain in multi thread loads from 11900k to 12900k. Part of that 200% is higher ipc, part is the extra small cores that 11900k doesn't have but most of that will be the hardware scheduler
 
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Don't know, Intel hasn't given specifics of how it works - if I had to guess it will distribute work based on the instruction set of incoming data and data load, like a web browser generated light load and could be placed on a single small core, while a old game like csgo would be placed on the 1st two big cores. Maybe it's Intel has its own software layer that is premprogrammed for the optimal work distribution based on the application exe name, kinda like a driver? Who knows

What we do know is that Intel claims to have up to 200% performance gain in multi thread loads from 11900k to 12900k

hmm and yet they have twice the core count (big and little) between 11900 and 12900, so probably they're still behind the 5950x.... Whoopsie.
 
hmm and yet they have twice the core count (big and little) between 11900 and 12900, so probably they're still behind the 5950x.... Whoopsie.


Yea 8 cores over the 11900k, but the small cores are very weak and run very slow speed and don't do HT - good enough to run background tasks like drivers, Windows processes, web browsers etc and keeping the high performance cores exclusively for the game threads with no core load swapping like the 5950x does

that is where the benefit comes, the 5950x is unable to keep its best cores exclusively for the game, Windows will keep pushing work around which means all cores get used for remedial stuff like background processes, alder lake resolves that by forcing background tasks to the mobile chip performance small cores and leaves high performance desktop cores just for the game/compute work loads
 
I'm really curious to see what they do with the hardware scheduler...

ARMs big.LITTLE came with multiple issues to the scheduler, at least from a Linux perspective, I would assume Windows is the same and no idea if MS has done much to deal with it. But basically previously schedulers treated all cores, and all threads, as equal (ish, threads had/have priorities), 'simple' (it's really not :p)

Once you start having different cores you need knowledge of the hardware to fully exploit that and it all becomes a lot more complicated. This at least is for full 'Heterogenous multi processing', e.g. using all cores at the same time. If Intels hardware scheduler is designed to remove this need then I think the most likely option would basically be 'paired cores', e.g. for each little core there's also a big core that are visible as just one core, the chip then decides when to switch between cores internally, kinda like boosting speeds based on load. But this removes any possible performance benefits of it (in fact it will drop performance slightly), it does however work for power which is always what the ARM approach was and likely is also what Intels main gains will be.

I'm not sure windows would cope well with the alternative where it starts a process running on core 0 and it decides to switch that to core 16 or whatever.

But, that does mean we're basically looking at an 8-core/16-thread processor which would be a big marketing fail.

If they crack it then all kudos to them, so not saying it's impossible but it's gonna be really interesting to see how/what they do...

Yea 8 cores over the 11900k, but the small cores are very weak and run very slow speed and don't do HT - good enough to run background tasks like drivers, Windows processes, web browsers etc and keeping the high performance cores exclusively for the game threads with no core load swapping like the 5950x does

that is where the benefit comes, the 5950x is unable to keep its best cores exclusively for the game, Windows will keep pushing work around which means all cores get used for remedial stuff like background processes, alder lake resolves that by forcing background tasks to the mobile chip performance small cores and leaves high performance desktop cores just for the game/compute work loads

That only works if Windows knows what cores are small cores and uses them appropriately, e.g. MS making big scheduler changes. How does Intel know at the hardware level one thread is a background process and another is the game we want at full speed. I guess Intel could have a driver/service running that monitors processes and informs the hardware scheduler but this raises even more questions, like privacy? and are we really going to want to rely on Intel for 'Game Ready' drivers everytime new software is released?
 
Yea 8 cores over the 11900k, but the small cores are very weak and run very slow speed and don't do HT - good enough to run background tasks like drivers, Windows processes, web browsers etc and keeping the high performance cores exclusively for the game threads with no core load swapping like the 5950x does

that is where the benefit comes, the 5950x is unable to keep its best cores exclusively for the game, Windows will keep pushing work around which means all cores get used for remedial stuff like background processes, alder lake resolves that by forcing background tasks to the mobile chip performance small cores and leaves high performance desktop cores just for the game/compute work loads

How will the hardware scheduler know that function A / instruction B is part of an extremely demanding benchmark / production software / strategy game or just Windows bloat ?
How will the Gracemount cores operate? Will they be seen as normal "cores" 8-15 or will there be new ACPI level stuff that Windows will need to implement or will they not be visible at OS level at all?
 
How will the hardware scheduler know that function A / instruction B is part of an extremely demanding benchmark / production software / strategy game or just Windows bloat ?
How will the Gracemount cores operate? Will they be seen as normal "cores" 8-15 or will there be new ACPI level stuff that Windows will need to implement or will they not be visible at OS level at all?

No idea how the scheduler "just knows what to do" as such. However, I would not be surprised if Intel launches software for it that delivers this information to the scheduler. Sort if how AMD and Nvidia release drivers for new games once a month that allow the GPU to have better performance, maybe Intel will do the same for its CPU's starting with Alder Lake
 
I would assume the instructions or operation being done can suggest the workload (like how AVX 512 has some specific uses), so the scheduler can know the difference between the workload of e.g. a game, or a browser?
 
Can kind of see why Intel wasn't too excited about 10nm about a year ago, if they are struggling to reach 5ghz clock speeds on all cores still. Also, DDR5 at 4800mhz doesn't sound like an improvement really. Hopefully, the IPC gains will be offer a substantial improvement vs Comet Lake.
 
I think Intel has had it and is ruling the roost these days fair play to them competition is always a good thing.
 
If I wanted "big and small" cores I will buy a phone, so F this.
maybe they will do a version with just 8 large cores? Intel must know most gamers aren't interested in CPUs with lots of cores, just for the sake of it.

It makes be wonder if Intel struggled to design Alder Lake to support higher core counts at high clock speeds.

It seems like a mistake not to offer a version with 10/12 large cores too, with no smaller cores.

'Raptor Lake' (probably 10nm) is already planned to follow Alder Lake (both same platform), I think probably in 2023. Some leaked info here:
https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/147609-intel-confirms-raptor-lake-s-13th-gen-core-processor-line/
 
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maybe they will do a version with just 8 large cores? Intel must know most gamers aren't interested in CPUs with lots of cores, just for the sake of it.

It makes be wonder if Intel struggled to design Alder Lake to support higher core counts at high clock speeds.

It seems like a mistake not to offer a version with 10/12 large cores too, with no smaller cores.

'Raptor Lake' (probably 10nm) is already planned to follow Alder Lake (both same platform), I think probably in 2023. Some leaked info here:
https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/147609-intel-confirms-raptor-lake-s-13th-gen-core-processor-line/

They're doing 6/0, so I'd imagine they will have 8/0 too.
 
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